Upton Warren (11 Viewers)

[Kimbo52]

Pax vobiscum

It is tempting to want to have the last word Mike....
But not tempting enough.
The situation generally and these brief exchanges have provided the answer for me to that age old conundrum i.e. whether apathy is contagious.
I shall follow the first part of Phil's lead.

 

[wheatearlp]

I class it as constructive criticism - not moaning or bitching.

Everybody has their own opinion on how this has been handled but it is fairly obvious to me that we are playing catch-up. Perhaps Bozza’s ‘brush with death’ is clouding his own judgement? I am no expert and have not studied Classics at Oxbridge but i would not have gone around hugging people.....i don’t - infected or otherwise

People, everybody i talk to, are fed up with being treated like children. Everybody has their own ‘personal space’ - a metre is not a bad average. I do not sit on a bus or a train next to somebody nor do i use a urinal without a gap between users. I cycle to bird and people well ahead back off or move to one side. All this is done down at places like UW and well before the ‘Chy-nah Virus’. Based on what people’s normal MO is and what is happening elsewhere the Trust need to pull their finger out imo.....

I know a good few birders that only subscribe to the Trust in order to use UW. Most work full-time and particularly at this time of year a weekly fix down at The Goldfish Bowl is the highlight of that week. Birders are an understanding lot and nobody would ask for a partial refund but there are not many services, if any, at the moment that you would fund and not allow it to be used.

Trust staff read this - indeed it will generate a response from them i am sure. I hope so because they are all working from home so they are supposed to still be gainfully employed or have they been furloughed with Bozza picking up the tab? I sent an email several weeks ago with regard to some background information about the little-known, or visited Chance Wood near Kinver, i got an automated response and nothing else since.

As for Phil, i hope it wasn’t my comments that upset him as it was certainly not my intention - i have enough bad press on this thread as it is. His input and specialised interests as resident ‘Statman’ is invaluable:t: Phil is also very diplomatic in his postings and i am hoping he might actually say hello to me when we next pass at UW

Good birding -

Laurie:t:

I don't disagree with anything you say here Laurie, except maybe '... moaning or bitching'. You can complain without doing either of these things and I specifically avoided using either word as I felt neither was appropriate here.

 

[rollingthunder]

It is just banter Mike nothing more nothing less and nothing personal. My definition of semantics probably differs from others but hey ho - at the end of the day i like to think everybody on here is on the same side.

There is nothing to stop anybody accessing UW at several points from the Moors houses, Aztec car park and public footpaths - i am surprised nobody has? Perhaps they have but will not post on here.....

I haven’t

Good birding -

Laurie:t:

 

[wheatearlp]

It is just banter Mike nothing more nothing less and nothing personal. My definition of semantics probably differs from others but hey ho - at the end of the day i like to think everybody on here is on the same side.

There is nothing to stop anybody accessing UW at several points from the Moors houses, Aztec car park and public footpaths - i am surprised nobody has? Perhaps they have but will not post on here.....

I haven’t

Good birding -

Laurie:t:

I have certainly viewed both Moors & Flashes from their respective public footpaths; I gather I'm not the only one to have done so. Therefore the reserve is viewable and birdable, so not really sure what the issue is, unless it's just to be able to sit in a hide or be close enough to the action to take pictures?

Granted areas of both are not visible from the footpaths, but then not everywhere is visible from hides

However, it's down (or up?) to the Trust to decide when it is right to open the reserve. Representation to them would be the way forward, and not just of the 'I think you're wrong' type of communication.

Anyway, I'm off to snorkel up the Hen Brook so I can scan the first flash 😉😉

 

[Stone Snapper]

:C:C:C:C

Unfortunately I can't resist the urge to comment further on the continued closure.
Phil is doing a splendid job of defending what now appears to be the indefensible and presumably adhering to the collective responsibility commitment. It would be interesting to know if he holds the same views personally. I agree with the Harborne Flyer that the continued closure is ridiculous given that most if not all of the other reserves have been open for a while. It is true that Upton is different in that it has several hides but these could be locked and the rest of the reserve i.e. the footpaths could be opened subject to sufficient signs reminding the need for social distancing. This would be a sensible interim half way house measure. I had a long [perfectly amicable] chat with the reserves team leader on 28 May to put the case for re-opening. By this time pretty much all other reserves had opened and I was curious to know how the Trust saw the difference between walking around Trench Wood for example and walking around the north Moors path. Not really sure I got an answer. The overriding point for me boils down to this : If the footpaths were opened and people didn't feel safe visiting - well presumably they wouldn't - it ain't compulsory. The reserves manager suggested that without the opening of the hides there would be little point in visiting. Whilst the hides are there for an obvious reason they aren't the be all and end all. The volunteer work party expends some of its resources creating screens and viewing points by lowering sections of hedge in several different places. This is done in part to take the pressure off the hides. Where Phil refers to the Trusts risk aversion based partly on previous litigation this has been to the best of my knowledge in relation to physical injuries sustained on the reserve in conjunction with inadequate provision [at the time] of warning signs. If catching the virus at Upton was a valid concern [short of the most spectacular irresponsible recklessness I don't see how] how, after the accepted incubation period would anyone be able to prove it. Finally, anyone who was minded to visit when opened, and walk the reserve would also be able to decide for themselves whether to wear a mask and latex gloves as anyone with any sense does when visiting their supermarket.

:C:C:C:C:C:C Having known you for some years now kim i`m shocked and disgusted at your comments on here.with the pandemic going on and all you seem botherd about is missing out on a few birds, ive not long come out off hospital with covid 19 myself and hung on for dear life not being able to see my loved ones when everyone including the drs thought i wouldnt make it thanks to all at the hospital im still here,its better than winning the lottery.We should be thankful that we had John & paul risking all to watch over the reserve they have familys too its a very scary time for all. Vern

 

[Kimbo52]

Vern

Having read your post I decided to send you a text but not sure I have your current mobile number. I have one ending 792. In case you didn't receive it, it read verbatim " Just read your post on the Upton Forum. I had no idea that you had copped for the virus and understand fully that with my limited knowledge of your other health issues it must have been very hard for you and your family. I wish you well for a speedy recovery and hopefully no long term affects. Best wishes Kim"

 

[Birder Gladys]

I feel after 9400 posts on this thread that my involvement has come to a natural conclusion. I will continue to post and relay bird news via Twitter until I find another suitable platform to showcase this wonderful reserve.[/QUOTE]

Hi Phil
thanks for your 9400 post.
please let us if find a suitable platform not just to showcase Upton but your amazing facts , figures, knowledge and graphs that Chris Packham would be pleased with.
ps it might be time that I stopped my quality photos too.
Tim

 

[Rob Williams]

My two penn'orth on this issue for what it is worth:

I think that Worcs WT have acted quite irresponsibly during the lockdown. When I asked what the rationale for entry was I think they deliberately tried to confuse the issue. They stated that they closed the reserve acting upon the government's lockdown advice but that when we were able to take one hours' exercise they asked the volunteers to take their exercise at Upton. This rather overlooked the fact that as soon as lockdown came in we were able to take exercise for one hour each day in the area where we lived....not many miles away. Various reasons have been put forward for this: security, maintenance, stop trespass and damage, welfare of the birds. None of which actually complied with the law and government guidance. Work had to be for essential occupations: healthcare, food supply, national logistics. In essence those things necessary for our society to tick over. We may view the care of the reserve as important, but it most certainly was not essential for the nation. This then placed the volunteers (all the paid staff were furloughed) in a dangerous position. To comply with the wishes of the Trust put them in danger of being fined and possibly getting a criminal record, in addition to being alone on a reserve. To an extent this was proved by the kayak incident; when you contact the police, kayaking on a nature reserve pool is simply not, and never will be, a priority. Again, we may think that is unfair, but trespass, on the whole, is a civil not a criminal matter and the police have no jurisdiction over civil matters.

The issue of visiting now is merely an extension of this attitude. Open the reserve but close the hides. Transmission of the virus in the open air on paths is an infinitessmally small chance. Put signs up telling people they enter at their own risk, give them guidance on how to behave and let them make their own mind up.

I for one am reviewing my relationship with the Trust, I think they have been cavalier and played fast and loose with their volunteers.


Rob

 

[Bob O.]

ps it might be time that I stopped my quality photos too.
Tim[/QUOTE]

The devastating blows just keep coming! First Phil goes and now we're going to loose Tims pics.....whatever next?
As for the rest of you, the clue is in the title...BIRDforum!

 

[Mud Hen]

My two penn'orth on this issue for what it is worth:

I think that Worcs WT have acted quite irresponsibly during the lockdown. When I asked what the rationale for entry was I think they deliberately tried to confuse the issue. They stated that they closed the reserve acting upon the government's lockdown advice but that when we were able to take one hours' exercise they asked the volunteers to take their exercise at Upton. This rather overlooked the fact that as soon as lockdown came in we were able to take exercise for one hour each day in the area where we lived....not many miles away. Various reasons have been put forward for this: security, maintenance, stop trespass and damage, welfare of the birds. None of which actually complied with the law and government guidance. Work had to be for essential occupations: healthcare, food supply, national logistics. In essence those things necessary for our society to tick over. We may view the care of the reserve as important, but it most certainly was not essential for the nation. This then placed the volunteers (all the paid staff were furloughed) in a dangerous position. To comply with the wishes of the Trust put them in danger of being fined and possibly getting a criminal record, in addition to being alone on a reserve. To an extent this was proved by the kayak incident; when you contact the police, kayaking on a nature reserve pool is simply not, and never will be, a priority. Again, we may think that is unfair, but trespass, on the whole, is a civil not a criminal matter and the police have no jurisdiction over civil matters.

The issue of visiting now is merely an extension of this attitude. Open the reserve but close the hides. Transmission of the virus in the open air on paths is an infinitessmally small chance. Put signs up telling people they enter at their own risk, give them guidance on how to behave and let them make their own mind up.

I for one am reviewing my relationship with the Trust, I think they have been cavalier and played fast and loose with their volunteers.


Rob

So disturbing breeding birds isn't a crime then? Depressing how utterly thick some plods are, especially ones who claim to be birders.

 

[Peregrine Trousers]

Today I received a detailed explanation of the Trusts position with regard to Upton. It is primarily a legal issue of Health and Safety of employees and all others on site....and that's good enough for me!...

 

[Birder Gladys]

Was stuck in traffic on A38 just flying off the moors wood pigeon. C.Crow.BHG. Dunnock. Highlights 2 collard dove.common tern flew over shell petrol station towards webbs.☺

 

[Where Bird]

Aerial Skirmish over Worcester.

Not UW but very high over Worcester this morning. 3LBBGs taking on this BoP which seemed to be holding its own. Pic 2 is for comparison of scale - one very raucous gull- not sure who was being chased. Miserable weather overcast and dull but exhilarating watching the flights. Some amazing views of birds over the area including peregrines and sparrow hawks and buzzards.
On a different note all my very best wishes to Vern and his family with the added hope that his recovery now is both swift and without any after affects.

Phil E

 

[geoffw1946]

Mike had a Black-headed Gull sporting a black leg ring with white code 2ATJ at the Flashes yesterday, presumably from Marsh Lane NR.

(From report 11/7/2019 #38315.)
This bird was seen again today at the Flashes, ringed in 2016 at Marsh Lane Warks I believe? It must like it here.

 

[wheatearlp]

(From report 11/7/2019 #38315.)
This bird was seen again today at the Flashes, ringed in 2016 at Marsh Lane Warks I believe? It must like it here.

There are a few returners from Marsh Lane fairly regularly now. Some only post-breeding or on migration. At least one has stayed to breed this year per info from John.

 

[John Sirrett]

Unfortunately the reserve remains closed with no target date for reopening communicated yet by the Trust. As some of you may be aware the Trust have asked the two volunteer (unpaid) Reserve Managers - Paul Moseley and John Belsey - to keep an eye on the reserve since the commencement of lockdown. Their tasks have included monitoring the livestock for their welfare, deterring anti-social behaviour, undertaking breeding bird surveys, monitoring and adjusting the water level as appropriate, undertaking low-grade maintenance work etc.


Big thanks to Paul & John for doing all this work. It's great that someone is getting collecting breeding records for the reserve: with regard to the Common Terns did you manage to get the Tern rafts out or did the Terns just opportunistically find somewhere on the existing lslands to attempt their breeding? Tremendous breeding record for BH Gulls presumably down to recent management work, weather and lack of disturbance.

Sorry to hear you have been ill Vern hope you are making a good recovery and the same to anyone else who has been unfortunate enough to contract this dammed virus.

 

[Dick-E-Dipper]

(From report 11/7/2019 #38315.)
This bird was seen again today at the Flashes, ringed in 2016 at Marsh Lane Warks I believe? It must like it here.

Who saw this Gull? I was under the impression the Flashes is closed and off limits,except for the 2 wardens

 

[Anguis]

It wasn't closed in 2019 which is when the report is dated

 

[wheatearlp]

Who saw this Gull? I was under the impression the Flashes is closed and off limits,except for the 2 wardens

Viewing from public footpath I gather.

 

[Rob Williams]

So disturbing breeding birds isn't a crime then? Depressing how utterly thick some plods are, especially ones who claim to be birders.

Sorry to disappoint you but I am not a police officer. Today is the first time I've seen this as I've finally got a day off work. Yes I will grant you that the young avocets may well have been disturbed by this, fortunately they would probably have been off the nest, and that is a crime. It is unfortunate though that this will not be responded to by the police as an urgent incident, it simply will not figure high enough up the list of priorities. There are far too many other emergencies and far too few police officers for them to respond. And that was my point, the two volunteers going to the reserve are on their own and in a difficult position. I have never criticised the individuals, I have criticised the Trust for putting them in that position. As I said in my earlier post what was important to us, was simply not important in the grand scheme of Covid.