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Upton Warren (1 Viewer)

Adrian k

Well-known member
They think it's ok to open the hides for a couple of hours for 2 days so you can get it (Covid-19) the rest of the week but not when the hides are open many reserves have had hides open now for quite some time.
Unless something else is happening I can't see why the hides are not open all week like many others which haven't reported any problems.
If people are sensible then there's no reason as to why they can't be open.
The paths at many other reserves are just as narrow as the flashes but it's still closed while others are open.

Is it the trust trying to keep us away or is there something else going on with the trust and Upton.
 

Phil Andrews

It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
I cant believe some of the b*ll*cks written on here in recent weeks - glad to see my decision not to continue posting is vindicated.
 

Birder Gladys

Well-known member
I cant believe some of the b*ll*cks written on here in recent weeks - glad to see my decision not to continue posting is vindicated.

Can understand motives not to continue posting,but do miss the information you provided .
Just as a quick question whats the annual count for 2020 so far ?
 

Phil Andrews

It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
Can understand motives not to continue posting,but do miss the information you provided .
Just as a quick question whats the annual count for 2020 so far ?

About 10 less than similar stage in previous years - circa 132. Missing the likes of Osprey, Marsh Harrier, Sandwich Tern etc
 
More Bo**ocks

Can understand motives not to continue posting,but do miss the information you provided .
Just as a quick question whats the annual count for 2020 so far ?

Motive - Rank hypocrisy. This is someone who apparently supports the closure of Upton Warren for the stated reasons - Covid safety, but happily travels the country to join dozens if not hundreds of other birders in very close proximity for the sake of a list. Stunning.
 

Phil Andrews

It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
Classic Trump - hide behind the shield of social media.

You have 'contributed' 4 posts to this forum saying nothing constructive. I have posted 9,000ish. Enuf said Keyboard Warrior.
 

Phil Andrews

It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
No hypocrisy. My weekend activities involved travelling from an area with no travel restrictions to another area of no travel restrictions in my own car by myself. Once there I stood at the edge of the gathering on common land two metres away from the nearest individual whilst wearing a mask. Pray tell what guideline/regulation I have broken?

The Trust, as a responsible landowner, have determined that they can only ensure social distancing within the hides through the deployment of staff. Through an additional funding stream they have been able to afford to recruit staff to provide a presence on site two days a week. As a property manager very familiar with the Covid Secure concept and obligations on a landowner to sign off a compliant management plan and mitigation, I appreciate the difficult situation they find themselves in, particularly on light of increased spot checks by the HSE. Likewise the Trust also needs to consider the residents at the Moors properties and the activity centre at the Flashes who control both access a d car parking. There is no "hidden agenda" - anyone who views the reserve from the public footpaths can see there is nothing untoward happening. Likewise anyone who professes a love for the reserve shouldn't be thinking about cancelling their membership.

This forum has become a sea of negatively and I feel sorry for the silent majority who are losing out with no news being posted direct or related by the likes of myself, JTB, Mike W and Andy P.
 

Gertatron

Well-known member
Agree Phil. As a property manager myself, I have lost a lot of sleep dealing with making multi occupied buildings I look after Covid Secure. There isn't a 'one size fits all' approach here. Each building and in this case each reserve is different and is subject to detailed risk assessments to ensure users, visitors and other stakeholders are kept safe.
Owners and managers have a personal liability and duty of care and no responsible owner would leave it to individuals to decide what risks to take. That would be gross negligence.
I am impressed with the Trust going to the lengths they have done in applying for funding and recruiting additional resource to allow the gradual and safe opening of Upton Warren. The organisation required to do this is no mean feat and shows their commitment is balancing safety with access. That is no joke and the Trust is to be commended.

I have no doubt that things will return to normal by the end of next year - if it means waiting a bit longer before we can turn up when we want to use the hides then so be it.
It really is a shame that this thread has become so toxic. Personally I don't get it - we should be standing behind any organisation and individuals that is trying to do it's best to save what's left of the wonderful places in our county rather than vilifying them. Neither they nor we are perfect, but in this case they have absolutely done the right thing
All the best
 
Freedom

Like Brexit peoples views about the reserve opening or staying closed have naturally polarised. The bigger issue here now seems to be freedom of speech.
George Orwell said "If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear"
Phil Andrews strops off because he doesn't like what he reads but recently can't resist accusing people of talking bo**ocks.
No profanity by anyone else on the forum as far as I recall.
Further talk about the forum being negative and toxic brings into play pot and kettle.
Your view of negative and toxic depends where you sit on the snowflake scale and / or your leaning towards censorship.
We still do live in a free country don't we ?
 

wheatearlp

Well-known member
England
The point here is that the Trust is the owner of the reserve. As such they need to make decisions with regard to the current position that may well end up being unpopular with some of their membership.

It seems in this case there are a small number who are aggreived, think the Trust is being over-cautious and are unhappy they cannot visit the reserve as and when they wish. All perfectly valid comments.

Posting those thoughts and feelings here is going to bring reaction from those who a) disagree or b) think those thoughts and feelings should be communicated direct to the Trust & not on a public forum. I happen to belong to the latter group. Make of that what you will. Either way, take it up with the Trust.

Both Phil & Gert have posted their thoughts and experiences based on what they have encountered in the course of their jobs. Valid points from both. Whether or not you agree with them or take their comments as implicit support of the Trust is largely irrelevant: if you have a grievance, take it up with the Trust.

Some peoples language in such situations may be more colourful than others would like or expect. Nothing said has so far attracted the attention of the mods on here, so is acceptable whether you like it or not.

As far as equating Phil's comments as support for the Trust (not implicit) & then accusing him of hypocrisy for twitching in Norfolk, I think you have your wires crossed. There is nothing that currently states you can't travel to Norfolk and stand in a public space to watch a bird. If there was I've no doubt the seven members of the Norfolk Constabulary, present on at least one of the days of the twitch, would have had more to say or do about the situation. As far as I'm aware they merely reminded people of their social distancing responsibilities. If that irks you, take it up with the authorities.
 

Peregrine Trousers

Returning birder after 30 years of hard graft
Reserve wardens and workparty volunteers were invited last Thursday 22nd to attend the Moors in line with the current rules for access to the site for a dry run of the proposed system. Specifically no more than 12 persons per 2 1/2 hour session, 2 sessions on the day. Time in hides was controlled and limited to 30-40 minutes in each hide, with access to roam along the main tracks fairly freely. After the session the Trust had a feedback session with several attendees to convey thoughts. Several issues were discussed oncerning how birders normally approach their visit and the Trust took these on board for future consideration. However, I think for the foreseeable future they will continue to operate as detailed on their website, with the approach that keeping it quite restrictive to begin with is the best approach with a 'see how it goes' view.

I have rebooked for next Thursday...its just great to be back there at all...
 
Final word on this - Thanks

Predictable that the old UW clique that you often hear about would stick together. However thanks are due to Messrs Andrews, Gertatron and Wheateralp for disclosing that you can only catch Covid on private land. Who knew. Additional thanks for revealing the "gross negligence" of private landowners e.g. Warwickshire Wildlife Trust's Brandon Marshes and others who have fully opened with government recommended measures in place and who have trusted their members to decide for themselves what risk to take. That's somewhere else I won't be going then.
 

wheatearlp

Well-known member
England
Predictable that the old UW clique that you often hear about would stick together. However thanks are due to Messrs Andrews, Gertatron and Wheateralp for disclosing that you can only catch Covid on private land. Who knew. Additional thanks for revealing the "gross negligence" of private landowners e.g. Warwickshire Wildlife Trust's Brandon Marshes and others who have fully opened with government recommended measures in place and who have trusted their members to decide for themselves what risk to take. That's somewhere else I won't be going then.

With such skill at twisting people's words to fit your own pre-conceived agenda, you must be a politician 😂
 

Adrian k

Well-known member
With many areas in the Midlands now moving into tier 2 & 3 will this affect the reserve and the opening of the hides at the Moors pools
 

wheatearlp

Well-known member
England
With many areas in the Midlands now moving into tier 2 & 3 will this affect the reserve and the opening of the hides at the Moors pools

Bromsgrove is currently in the lowest tier. So, as I understand it, no problems at the moment assuming you aren't coming from an area in lockdown.

The Trust will no doubt post on their web-site if anything changes, so keep an eye on that.
 

Phil Andrews

It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
Any risk assessment should be dynamic and respond to any changes of circumstance. For Adrian's question this falls into two categories in my mind - should the location (under Wychbold DC) enter Tier 2 and if part of the reserve's "catchment area" (eg Birmingham, Solihull and the Black Country) enter Tier 3. At present the booking form asks for a postcode for market research purposes - wonder if its advanced enough to block bookings from stated areas?
 

rollingthunder

Well-known member
I didn’t realise there were so many property managers on here - how little i know;)

As for ‘increased spot checks by the HSE’ - they never respond to an industrial accident until there has been one:-O

These stressful times we, some of us, live in have empowered all the former school bullies to flex their muscles - i’ll CrowdFund a rope.....they can go and piss up it.....

What the Trust do is up to them but some of us will not fund it - i made a simple enquiry about the history and their acquisition of another of their reserves 6 months ago and still no response - just what are they doing with all this time?

Those with a modicum of common sense will ‘Keep Calm and Carry On’ as being outdoors and making the most of the Autumn Sun and it’s health-giving Vitamin D is far better advice than what is coming out of Bozza’s de-facto propaganda department that is Imperial College:-O

I am intrigued as to who the mystery Sniper who has Phil in his Red-dot scope is? I expect my inbox to be full by midnight:eek!:

Good Birding -

Laurie:t:
 

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