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ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia

Weight in relation with steadiness? (2 Viewers)

dorubird

Well-known member
Romania
I appreciate the discussion. More weight definitely offers resistance to shake. But I also think length is really important...if you are holding the bins towards your face, more length = more shake. I'm surprised more folks don't comment on this. I think it's one reason why flat 8x32 porros offer such a good view (among others).
Not always! As I detailed in post#10, I noticed that the shape and weight distribution matter a lot. For example SF is one of the longest 10x42 binoculars but it is one of the most comfortable and relaxing for the hands. This is due to the weight carefully distributed more to the eyepieces making to look like much lighter in the hands than it really is. This 10x Victory SF it behaves like an standard 8x from the point of view of shake in hands. It stabilizes fantastically well despite its long length !
 

Hans Weigum

Well-known member
Six degrees of freedom - Wikipedia

These six degrees of freedom define the position and orientation of an object (here observation instrument) in space (or in its environment) but applies as well to changes of position in time (=movement , here oscillations).

Out of these six degrees internally stabilised observation instruments (contrary to close up camera lenses) only consider rotation around the vertical and horizontal axes, all other beeing irrelevant relative to the distances usually focussed.

Mass of an optical instrument alone only affects translatory movement, and is therefore irrelevant to picture stabilisation.

Rotation however, is affected by axial intertia of mass, the integrated sum of distribution of mass elements multiplied by the square of its distance from their common axis of rotation.

Therefore its possible to hold freehand a long draw tube spotting scope as steady as a binocular with a fraction of the scopes magnification.

That other factors as the type of contact body to instrument matter is obvious.

Hans
 

Swedpat

Well-known member
This is a matter of physics. Providing everything else is identical more mass is more resistent to sudden movement. But at the same time heavier means your muscles will sooner be tired. So this can be a bit complicated.
 

gwlee

Active member
This is a matter of physics. Providing everything else is identical more mass is more resistent to sudden movement. But at the same time heavier means your muscles will sooner be tired. So this can be a bit complicated.
I use mostly 50mm porros for astronomy that weigh about three pounds in observing sessions that last about 3 hours in Summer. Whether I am using my 21oz 8x32 or my 3# 10x50 my arms will become fatigued many times in 3 hours, and I will set the binocular down for a few seconds to allow my arms to recover as well as many other reasons. To me this aspect of the weight difference , the total number of times I will pick up and set down the binocular during the observing session, is inconsequental.

The heavier, 3# 10x50 shakes less while I actually looking through the binocular, allowing me to see what I want to see while I am holding the binocular, which is a difference that makes a difference. When I am hiking all day in the steep mountains near my home, I use the 21oz 8x32 because its lighter weight is a difference that makes a difference.
 

b-lilja

Well-known member
I think rotational inertia and center of gravity are important - but my point is that the length of the binocular amplifies proportionately an equal amount of angular shake. IE, if you rotate (shake) a bin one degree, likely from some axis location combo of the rotational center of gravity, hand placement, and the exit pupils (I say this because I know I tend to stabilize bins on my brow), the longer the bin, the further the objective moves. Pretty simple. I think this is one of the hidden virtues of porros (relatively flat on axis). I think of my very very stable, small, B&L 7x26s with little distance between the planes of the exit pupils and objectives.

The flip side is longer bins enable asymmetric hand placement. Without being conscious of it, I often place one hand out by the objective on my x42s, which has a stabilizing influence.

A lot of dynamics for such a simple act!
 

John A Roberts

Well-known member
Australia
FWIW, there’s a lot of photographs of US Secret Service agents standing and holding their long and heavy Steiner 15x80’s, without any other support!
(the Steiners are 30 cm/ 12" long and 1.93 kg/ 4 1/4 lb.) *
See an image from Max Bossman showing the hands forward hold that seems to be preferred, from: Barack and Michelle Obama
And for a whole lot more examples, Google 'US Secret Service binoculars' and choose the Images option.

It may be that USSS agents are particularly steady of hand and clear of eye (or there may be at least in part a Psyops aspect to their actions - making it obvious that they’re both present and actively scanning what’s going on)?

* The use of the 15x80’s verses the 20x80’s has been confirmed at: U.S. Secret Service issue Steiners


Somewhat tongue-in-cheek
John
 

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42za

Well-known member
On the whole ,I find that heavier binoculars are steadier than the lightweight ones.
But one can adapt and use ANY binocular ever made , it is just a matter of your mindset.
My favourite binocular is a REAL heavyweight , a Zeiss 7 x 45 Night Owl.
But I also use a REAL lightweight , a Leica 8 x 20 Monovid extensively with no problems.
I also have a few other binoculars which receive regular use depending on what I feel like using.
This is just me , you may feel differently , that is perfectly ok LOL.
 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
FWIW, there’s a lot of photographs of US Secret Service agents standing and holding their long and heavy Steiner 15x80’s, without any other support!
(the Steiners are 30 cm/ 12" long and 1.93 kg/ 4 1/4 lb.) *
See an image from Max Bossman showing the hands forward hold that seems to be preferred, from: Barack and Michelle Obama
And for a whole lot more examples, Google 'US Secret Service binoculars' and choose the Images option.

It may be that USSS agents are particularly steady of hand and clear of eye (or there may be at least in part a Psyops aspect to their actions - making it obvious that they’re both present and actively scanning what’s going on)?

* The use of the 15x80’s verses the 20x80’s has been confirmed at: U.S. Secret Service issue Steiners


Somewhat tongue-in-cheek
John
John, yes ..... but remember - they are also trained to endure and resist torture ! 😝


Chosun 🙅‍♀️
 

b-lilja

Well-known member
FWIW, there’s a lot of photographs of US Secret Service agents standing and holding their long and heavy Steiner 15x80’s, without any other support!
(the Steiners are 30 cm/ 12" long and 1.93 kg/ 4 1/4 lb.) *
See an image from Max Bossman showing the hands forward hold that seems to be preferred, from: Barack and Michelle Obama
And for a whole lot more examples, Google 'US Secret Service binoculars' and choose the Images option.

It may be that USSS agents are particularly steady of hand and clear of eye (or there may be at least in part a Psyops aspect to their actions - making it obvious that they’re both present and actively scanning what’s going on)?

* The use of the 15x80’s verses the 20x80’s has been confirmed at: U.S. Secret Service issue Steiners


Somewhat tongue-in-cheek
John
Look at the arms on that guy...brings to mind Arnold...
 

mwhogue

Well Known Member
Supporter
FWIW, there’s a lot of photographs of US Secret Service agents standing and holding their long and heavy Steiner 15x80’s, without any other support!
(the Steiners are 30 cm/ 12" long and 1.93 kg/ 4 1/4 lb.) *
See an image from Max Bossman showing the hands forward hold that seems to be preferred, from: Barack and Michelle Obama
And for a whole lot more examples, Google 'US Secret Service binoculars' and choose the Images option.

It may be that USSS agents are particularly steady of hand and clear of eye (or there may be at least in part a Psyops aspect to their actions - making it obvious that they’re both present and actively scanning what’s going on)?

* The use of the 15x80’s verses the 20x80’s has been confirmed at: U.S. Secret Service issue Steiners


Somewhat tongue-in-cheek
John

John,

Thanks for this. I tried out the technique shown in the photo you posted this weekend at the beach with Fujinon 10x50. It worked better in terms of improving hand held steadiness and was not as tiring as my previous method. Interesting that for me more "supporting" rather than "gripping" large heavy bins as well as small pockets makes for a steadier image.

Mike
 
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia

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