what are the "weaknesses" if any of the 8.5x42 EL? (1 Viewer)

[temmie]

There is nothing better than binoholics on a bird forum, and no offence to anyone in that herd!

I am as much a binoholic as most others here, and although I am a little Zeissian, I would be very tempted to buy a 8x32 EL 'new' (if they will ever make one), if only for the ergonomics.
(and a Leica 10*50 (combination of relatively low weight, good light, good FOV and 10 magnification), a Zeiss 8*56 for low light, etc...) o

 

[oleaf]

I think the "herd mentality" analogy is both peevish and innaccurate (no offence to anyone). I´m not sure about hunters, but I´d bet that birders, being of the eco-friendly variety, tend not to be "alpha males", are not high earners, and are generally very careful about spending their money, cutting back in other areas before we choose binos. (That´s why we all drive crap cars). I also think most birders don´t "judge" each other one way or another....either by binos or anything else. My own personal experience (and from anecdotal evidence I assume this to be the case with most) is that I deliberated long and hard, and tried what I could, before eventually deciding on the best "overall package" for me. I imagine a birder carefully spending his money, and wanting to try out every bino in the shop, is the store-owner´s worst nightmare. And whether my binos are considered "alpha" or not, or whether other birders carry the same or not, well, I frankly couldn´t give a toss. Porsches are status-symbols. Binoculars aren´t. (Ask any cute blonde). They´re only binoculars, tools for seeing things far away. I obsess about them, sure, but I don´t kid myself into believing that they make me a superior birder, or a better human being. But everyone has different tastes and different requirements. That´s why Communism can´t work (unfortunately!). Enjoy your bins but don´t argue about them, God knows we have enough to argue about on the planet as it is.

Sancho,

Isn't it funny how everyone who uses the term "herd mentality" considers themselves outside the herd?

Cheers

 

[308CAL]

The big reason they outsell Zeiss and Leica is that they are about $500.00 less expensive. In my opinion the Swarovski 8.5 x42 EL'S are still a notch down optically from the the Zeiss 8x42 FL. Most reviews agree with that conclusion.

WOW i owned the Zeiss FL 8x42 before the EL 8.5x42 and much prefer the EL. THe zeiss is a little brighter because of the prisms but i would hardly say the EL isnt bright. THe EL also has a way bigger sweet spot, which i prefer. Ergonomics isnt even close...Warranty?CUstomer Service goes to Swaro even though Zeiss aint bad...
I also prefer the EYecups of the swaro

 

[oleaf]

I think the "herd mentality" analogy is both peevish and innaccurate (no offence to anyone). I´m not sure about hunters, but I´d bet that birders, being of the eco-friendly variety, tend not to be "alpha males", are not high earners, and are generally very careful about spending their money, cutting back in other areas before we choose binos. (That´s why we all drive crap cars). I also think most birders don´t "judge" each other one way or another....either by binos or anything else. My own personal experience (and from anecdotal evidence I assume this to be the case with most) is that I deliberated long and hard, and tried what I could, before eventually deciding on the best "overall package" for me. I imagine a birder carefully spending his money, and wanting to try out every bino in the shop, is the store-owner´s worst nightmare. And whether my binos are considered "alpha" or not, or whether other birders carry the same or not, well, I frankly couldn´t give a toss. Porsches are status-symbols. Binoculars aren´t. (Ask any cute blonde). They´re only binoculars, tools for seeing things far away. I obsess about them, sure, but I don´t kid myself into believing that they make me a superior birder, or a better human being. But everyone has different tastes and different requirements. That´s why Communism can´t work (unfortunately!). Enjoy your bins but don´t argue about them, God knows we have enough to argue about on the planet as it is.

Sancho

About the bino and cars as status symbols you are both correct and incorrect.

To someone who can't afford or appreciate the benefits of owning and using the best performing product... a binocular or car could be perceived as a status symbol. Swaro and Porsche are status symbols... like it or not.

I have a buddy who races his Porsche on the Nurburgring race track. His Porsche is very expensive (think 90K euro) and to him it's the best tool for the job. I don't think he uses it to pick up blonds.

He loves his Porsche like you love your EL's. The status symbol is just baggage that goes with the territory.

Personally, I drive a Meopta and am happy with no status. LOL

Cheers

 

[Sancho]

Sancho,

Isn't it funny how everyone who uses the term "herd mentality" considers themselves outside the herd?

Cheers

LOL! I´m just peeved because no herd ever wanted me as a member...

I have a buddy who races his Porsche on the Nurburgring race track. His Porsche is very expensive (think 90K euro) and to him it's the best tool for the job. I don't think he uses it to pick up blonds.

What? That´s a terrible waste of a good status-symbol. I hope you borrow it from time to time and put it to its intended use.......

 

[Sancho]

Personally, I drive a Meopta and am happy with no status. LOL

Cheers

If you want to get really smug, get yourself a pair of Nikon EII´s. They don´t even have a special logo on...just old-fashioned, black porros. They allow one to sneer internally at all other bino-users, and they still cost less than 400 euro.........

 

[spacepilot]

If you want to get really smug, get yourself a pair of Nikon EII´s. They don´t even have a special logo on...just old-fashioned, black porros. They allow one to sneer internally at all other bino-users, and they still cost less than 400 euro.........

Well, not if the EII's comes with the strap with bright yellow "Nikon" stitches, like the ones come with my SE's. I feel uneasy every time I put it on my neck. The SE's are pretty homely looking, but the strap is too much. Hmm, it's time to order some more discreet straps. While I'm at it, I may also see if I can find some Tasco stickers on ebay to put on my SE to cover up the Nikon logos.

Ning

 

[Sancho]

Well, not if the EII's comes with the strap with bright yellow "Nikon" stitches, like the ones come with my SE's. I feel uneasy every time I put it on my neck. The SE's are pretty homely looking, but the strap is too much. Hmm, it's time to order some more discreet straps. While I'm at it, I may also see if I can find some Tasco stickers on ebay to put on my SE to cover up the Nikon logos.

Ning

It´s easier than that. Just scribble over the yellow with a black permanent marker. I´ve done that with various clothes and shoes, because I hate logos. Never thought of the Nikon strap....mind you, all it says is "Nikon", and Nikon make some crappy bins...so my EII´s could be, to an unpractised observer (stalking me from behind), a pair of.....OMG!!! Non-Status Binos!!! Gotta get me a Porsche......

 

[oleaf]

If you want to get really smug, get yourself a pair of Nikon EII´s. They don´t even have a special logo on...just old-fashioned, black porros. They allow one to sneer internally at all other bino-users, and they still cost less than 400 euro.........

Sancho,

LOL! You've got me down cold! I had a pair of EII's and sold them to get the Meopta's. The EII's had too little eye relief.

Those were the anti-status symbol for sure. But, as you know, anti-status is the new "status". You can run...

Cheers

 

[Sancho]

Sancho,

LOL! You've got me down cold! I had a pair of EII's and sold them to get the Meopta's. The EII's had too little eye relief.

Those were the anti-status symbol for sure. But, as you know, anti-status is the new "status". You can run...

Cheers

Darn! I´m exposed yet again for the shallow inverse-snob I really am. Maybe what I need is a pair of Meoptas...I´ve never seen a pair here.
:t:

 

[ceasar]

Well, not if the EII's comes with the strap with bright yellow "Nikon" stitches, like the ones come with my SE's. I feel uneasy every time I put it on my neck. The SE's are pretty homely looking, but the strap is too much. Hmm, it's time to order some more discreet straps. While I'm at it, I may also see if I can find some Tasco stickers on ebay to put on my SE to cover up the Nikon logos.

Ning[/QUOTE

Homely!?:eek!: Not the SE! The most stylish Porro Prism in history! The Epitome of Elegance! The Peak of Panache! You don't think folks carry them around just for their view. Do you?

I am shocked! Shocked I say!|8.|

Bob

 

[[email protected]]

Well, not if the EII's comes with the strap with bright yellow "Nikon" stitches, like the ones come with my SE's. I feel uneasy every time I put it on my neck. The SE's are pretty homely looking, but the strap is too much. Hmm, it's time to order some more discreet straps. While I'm at it, I may also see if I can find some Tasco stickers on ebay to put on my SE to cover up the Nikon logos.

Ning[/QUOTE

Homely!?:eek!: Not the SE! The most stylish Porro Prism in history! The Epitome of Elegance! The Peak of Panache! You don't think folks carry them around just for their view. Do you?

I am shocked! Shocked I say!|8.|

Bob

I find it astounding that anybody thinks the Swarovski 8.5 x 42 EL or 8x32 EL have superior optics over the Zeiss 8x42 FL or 8x32 FL. Every in-depth review ranks the Zeiss FL over the Swarovski EL. When I compared the two I found the Swarovski EL to be good but definitely not as good optically as the Zeiss. I think it must be advertising that convinces people the Swarovski EL's are better than Zeiss FL's. If you know optics it is easy to see the Zeiss are superior. Even our own optics expert here on bird forum Henry Link thinks the Zeiss is easily superior. To quote "I agree with Leif and Trevor. I've seen the 8x32 EL a number of times and always been unimpressed. Most recently comparing binoculars in a store a few days ago found the 8x32 EL to be dimmer, lower contrast, less sharp and less color neutral not only vs. the Zeiss 8x42 FL but also the 8x32 FL, the Nikon 8x32 SE and (believe it or not) the $300 Nikon 8x30 EII. Of course, like everyone else I love the way they feel in my hands. I would consider adding the 8x32 FL to your short list if you haven't seen it. It is only a little less bright than the 8x42 and has better off axis sharpness." There are absolutely no reviews that rank the Swarovski's above the Zeiss in optics so I think people our being brainwashed by the advertisements into thinking they are. Ergonomics is a personal thing but the optics do not lie. An EL can not compete with an FL in optics. The Zeiss has less CA because of the ED or FL glass and consequently it WILL be sharper and be more real and have better contrast. Here is yet another review that gives the edge to the Zeiss FL. If you don't want to read the details I'll cut to the chase. "Our favourite among the models was the Victory 8x42 FL, which our test team considered to be narrowly but unequivocally better than the number one of recent years, the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL." I couldn't have said it better!

http://www.lintuvaruste.fi/hinnasto/optiikkaarvostelu/optics_10_zeiss8xFL_GB.shtml

 

[NDhunter]

Dennis:

Wow, what a rant !

The EL is one fine binocular, and it isn't just advertising that has brought these
universal greatness. It isn't the sweet spot, the brightness, it is the sum of the parts.

I can tell you prefer the Zeiss, great, they make nice optics also.

Have you heard, Swaro. has a new EL coming, they sound really nice.

 

[Kevin Purcell]

I have a buddy who races his Porsche on the Nurburgring race track. His Porsche is very expensive (think 90K euro) and to him it's the best tool for the job. I don't think he uses it to pick up blonds.

He would be she can't get into the track version of the GT3 because of the roll cage

He loves his Porsche like you love your EL's. The status symbol is just baggage that goes with the territory.

Personally, I drive a Meopta and am happy with no status. LOL

So how do you like your Skoda bins

I do jest as Meopta are high on my interest list (especially if they made ED glass version) especially as the top bin recede into the distance on the window shelf of that Ferrari.

I understand what Sancho is saying but I can assure him that not everyone out there is a nice as him! People do check out your bins. THey may be the sort of people you don't want to hang out with. But sometimes if you are after a rarity you don't have a choice.

I do look at other bins though though I was most impressed when I finally saw a pair of 8x32 SE in the field. The only ones I've ever seen. And they were nicely worn too. So a real binocuholic will actually be more impressed when he sees a set of Zeiss 7x35 porros or a really beaten up set of Zeiss 10x40B (the logo deterioriates in such a nice way) in the field than yet another set of Swaros.

Homely!?:eek!: Not the SE! The most stylish Porro Prism in history! The Epitome of Elegance! The Peak of Panache! You don't think folks carry them around just for their view. Do you?

I am shocked! Shocked I say!|8.|

Of all the lookouts at all the NWRs that bin walks into mine. I came here for the waterbirds.

To everyone whose not a binocuholic (or an SE owner) all those porros look the same. Even though the SE are very, very svelt there are some people who don't see them that way.

SE, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Play it, Sam ...

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Casablanca_(film)

 

[macs]

Here is yet another review that gives the edge to the Zeiss FL. If you don't want to read the details I'll cut to the chase. "Our favourite among the models was the Victory 8x42 FL, which our test team considered to be narrowly but unequivocally better than the number one of recent years, the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL." I couldn't have said it better!

http://www.lintuvaruste.fi/hinnasto/optiikkaarvostelu/optics_10_zeiss8xFL_GB.shtml

Kimmo Absetz also says: ''However, in our opinion, the difference is not great enough to warrant an upgrading frenzy among serious birders.''

Slightly better, but not revolutionary.

 

[[email protected]]

Kimmo Absetz also says: ''However, in our opinion, the difference is not great enough to warrant an upgrading frenzy among serious birders.''

Slightly better, but not revolutionary.

My point is I feel the Zeiss FL with their ED glass are slightly better optically right now than the Swarovski EL's. Things may change when the new Swarovision comes out. Time will tell. Should we get our name on the Eagle optics waiting list. I need to save some more $!

 

[mooreorless]

I find it astounding that anybody thinks the Swarovski 8.5 x 42 EL or 8x32 EL have superior optics over the Zeiss 8x42 FL or 8x32 FL. Every in-depth review ranks the Zeiss FL over the Swarovski EL. When I compared the two I found the Swarovski EL to be good but definitely not as good optically as the Zeiss. I think it must be advertising that convinces people the Swarovski EL's are better than Zeiss FL's. If you know optics it is easy to see the Zeiss are superior. Even our own optics expert here on bird forum Henry Link thinks the Zeiss is easily superior. To quote "I agree with Leif and Trevor. I've seen the 8x32 EL a number of times and always been unimpressed. Most recently comparing binoculars in a store a few days ago found the 8x32 EL to be dimmer, lower contrast, less sharp and less color neutral not only vs. the Zeiss 8x42 FL but also the 8x32 FL, the Nikon 8x32 SE and (believe it or not) the $300 Nikon 8x30 EII. Of course, like everyone else I love the way they feel in my hands. I would consider adding the 8x32 FL to your short list if you haven't seen it. It is only a little less bright than the 8x42 and has better off axis sharpness." There are absolutely no reviews that rank the Swarovski's above the Zeiss in optics so I think people our being brainwashed by the advertisements into thinking they are. Ergonomics is a personal thing but the optics do not lie. An EL can not compete with an FL in optics. The Zeiss has less CA because of the ED or FL glass and consequently it WILL be sharper and be more real and have better contrast. Here is yet another review that gives the edge to the Zeiss FL. If you don't want to read the details I'll cut to the chase. "Our favourite among the models was the Victory 8x42 FL, which our test team considered to be narrowly but unequivocally better than the number one of recent years, the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL." I couldn't have said it better!

http://www.lintuvaruste.fi/hinnasto/optiikkaarvostelu/optics_10_zeiss8xFL_GB.shtml

No people start getting emotional when you say something bad about the binoculars they own. It's like saying their kids are dumb or something. They start taking it personal. It's kind of funny really. Everybody thinks what they have is the best and it may be for them but it's not the best for everybody but they don't understand that.

Talk about emotional. I have tried both the 8x32FL and 8x42Fl nice binoculars, not perfect by a long shot. Such is life. I have tried the 8x32EL and nice as well. Felt better in the hand, much better.

 

[josika]

Actually the latest Kikkert tests have the 10x42 and the8.5x42 ELs ahead of the Zeiss FLs; however they have the 8x32 Fls ahead of the corresponding ELs.
Ben.

 

[ronh]

As an FL user, I will admit there is something unbeautiful, cold, and undesirable about the outward vibe. Both Swaro and Leica strike me as finer machines, and my choice would be different if it wasn't for that darned looking-through thing. I believe conniseurs, such as ourselves (even those of us can't spell it) are more inclined to give points for that kind of physical fineness. Similarly, I think we are more aware than Joe Blow of non-fundamental aspects of the optics as well, like how sharp the edge is, how distorted the field, and how easily viewed the edge without blackouts, not just how easy it makes seeing a bird. I love my old Leica Trinovid in a way I may never the Zeiss, because it excels in all these things.

But one lift of the FL up to my eyes, one focus, one look, one bird, and that's it. Lord have mercy, it works! I guess its utilitarian precision will probably grow on me after a while. But it still seems like a tool to me, not love, and I sort of miss love.
Ron

 

[Kammerdiner]

As the original owner of a 22 year old Porsche, and a Zeiss FL, I can say that they do share the same sort of functional vibe. The newer Porsches, however, are far more luxuriously appointed, nothing cold about them.

Yeah, the Swaros maybe look better. Those chunky black ribs on the FL are kinda ugly, but they feel just fine in the hand. And like most things you love using, the looks sort of grow on you after awhile. I still think my old Porsche looks better than 98% of the cars on the road today.

As for the SE's, I think they look great, feel great--except for those rubber eyecups.

This summer I was drooling over a 1999 911 convertible, black with a gorgeous tan interior, but then I got my mind right and bought the Zeiss--for about $25,000 less. My wife didn't even complain about the cost after the Porsche episode. Try it, works like a charm.

But I can imagine the little 8x32 FL's sitting on the sumptuous tan leather of that Porsche while I'm cruising the countryside for birds. The best of all possible worlds.