What binoculars do you think have the most WOW factor! (1 Viewer)

[ronh]

Dennis,
I tried a Swaro 8x20 not long ago. I was impressed with the optics and mechanics. In bright light the only thing it obviously lacked compared to a good big binocular was a wide field of view. But the eyecups didn't extend far enough to brace them against my eyes. I had to hold it out from my face, which made it seem unsteady. I thought it admirable that such a tiny binocular had so much eye relief, and ironic that this became a disadvantage. Do you have a problem with that?
Ron

 

[Newbflat]

I've had the Nikon 10x25 lxl's for 8? years or so. When i sat and compared them with the Swaro's and Leicas ( both 10x25's) in the same session, the Nikon was the clear winner over the Swaros. That was 8 or so years ago and i would imagine a prism coating change could switch that around. But if i remember right it was the sharpness that was the issue for me. The Leica and the Nikon were neck and neck in terms of sharpness with the Leica having a bit more saturated color. The nikon seemed to be very neutral to me. I chose the Nikons as they were so much cheaper and gave away nothing to the Leicas. One thing i do miss on the Nikons is the armoring of the Leicas. I have really dinged these up over the years. They have received a LOT of use as my primary birding binos for traveling. They didn't survive my birding trip to Oaxaca, Mexico this december. One three foot fall from a table to the tile floor did them in. They hit on the edge of one of the objective rims. I wonder if the armoring of the Leicas would have saved them? Birding with out of alinement binos with one very floppy hinge for three weeks.... sucks! They should arrive at Nikon today. It will be interesting to see what they do.

I tried to like any of the 8x20's as that was my original desire but just didn't. I found the 10x's to be better in all three makes than there 8x's. The only way any of the 8x's would have worked in my mind is if the single most important thing was size.

In a side note i compared my Nikon 10x25's to my old Leica 8x32BA's and was very pleased. The sharpnes was efectively the same with the nikons having sharper edges. The Nikons were only a touch dimmer than the leicas in the deep darkness of winter time rainy Washington rainforest under brush but resolved the same detail with the extra magnification. The field of view was effectively the same as i could never see the whole FOV in the Leicas stupidly short ER. I can see everything in the Nikons with a bit of room to spare. I have my glasses on all the time.

bla bla bla....

Bill

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis,
I tried a Swaro 8x20 not long ago. I was impressed with the optics and mechanics. In bright light the only thing it obviously lacked compared to a good big binocular was a wide field of view. But the eyecups didn't extend far enough to brace them against my eyes. I had to hold it out from my face, which made it seem unsteady. I thought it admirable that such a tiny binocular had so much eye relief, and ironic that this became a disadvantage. Do you have a problem with that?
Ron

Eye Relief is so dependent on how deep set your eyes are and the anatomical structure of your face that is hard to say how any one pair of binoculars are going to work for any particular person. Your right in that some binoculars have too MUCH eye relief for the length of their eye cups to accomodate it which I find really strange. I encountered this on the Vortex Viper 6x32 HD. The Swarovski's 8x20 work pretty good for ME. I could use maybe 1mm more eye relief because sometimes my eyebrows will brush up against the eyepieces leaving some small oily marks if I start getting my eyes too close to the eyepieces. The Swaro's really are brighter and have better contrast and I really think it is due to the fact that the Nikon's still use silver prism coatings and the Swaro has dielectric and the Swaro's coatings might be a little better quality. It really works to compare binoculars side by side. The Nikon's and the Leica's really were a little dissapointing after using the Swaro.

 

[[email protected]]

I've had the Nikon 10x25 lxl's for 8? years or so. When i sat and compared them with the Swaro's and Leicas ( both 10x25's) in the same session, the Nikon was the clear winner over the Swaros. That was 8 or so years ago and i would imagine a prism coating change could switch that around. But if i remember right it was the sharpness that was the issue for me. The Leica and the Nikon were neck and neck in terms of sharpness with the Leica having a bit more saturated color. The nikon seemed to be very neutral to me. I chose the Nikons as they were so much cheaper and gave away nothing to the Leicas. One thing i do miss on the Nikons is the armoring of the Leicas. I have really dinged these up over the years. They have received a LOT of use as my primary birding binos for traveling. They didn't survive my birding trip to Oaxaca, Mexico this december. One three foot fall from a table to the tile floor did them in. They hit on the edge of one of the objective rims. I wonder if the armoring of the Leicas would have saved them? Birding with out of alinement binos with one very floppy hinge for three weeks.... sucks! They should arrive at Nikon today. It will be interesting to see what they do.

I tried to like any of the 8x20's as that was my original desire but just didn't. I found the 10x's to be better in all three makes than there 8x's. The only way any of the 8x's would have worked in my mind is if the single most important thing was size.

In a side note i compared my Nikon 10x25's to my old Leica 8x32BA's and was very pleased. The sharpnes was efectively the same with the nikons having sharper edges. The Nikons were only a touch dimmer than the leicas in the deep darkness of winter time rainy Washington rainforest under brush but resolved the same detail with the extra magnification. The field of view was effectively the same as i could never see the whole FOV in the Leicas stupidly short ER. I can see everything in the Nikons with a bit of room to spare. I have my glasses on all the time.

bla bla bla....

Bill

Hmm. 8 years ago. That is quite awhile ago. I really feel Swarovski has updated their coatings and added Dielectric Coatings(Swarobright) to their prisms since you tested them. Did your Swaro's say they had Swarobright? The Nikon's still have silver coated prisms and I think this is the big difference between the two binoculars in brightness and contrast. Try the Swaro's again. I think you will be surprised. They clearly outperformed the Nikon's.

 

[Newbflat]

Hmm. 8 years ago. That is quite awhile ago. I really feel Swarovski has updated their coatings and added Dielectric Coatings to their prisms since you tested them.The Nikon's still have silver coated prisms and I think this is the big difference between the two binoculars in brightness and contrast. Try the Swaro's again. I think you will be surprised. They clearly outperformed the Nikon's.

Well I'm just hoping that Nikon is going to end me a new pair of 10x25's as they were so well used. I have no doubt that if swaro has upgraded there coatings it might beat out the Nikons. Still the nikons are a very little nice pait of binos. Just wish they had a wider FOV... The curse of all these pocket binos I guess. Unless the 10x Swaros have a functional 17-19mm eye ER they wouldn't work for me anyways...

 

[[email protected]]

Well I'm just hoping that Nikon is going to end me a new pair of 10x25's as they were so well used. I have no doubt that if swaro has upgraded there coatings it might beat out the Nikons. Still the nikons are a very little nice pait of binos. Just wish they had a wider FOV... The curse of all these pocket binos I guess. Unless the 10x Swaros have a functional 17-19mm eye ER they wouldn't work for me anyways...

YOU know all these top alpha compact are wonderful and amazing optics. It is funny though when you start comparing them side by side what you notice. The Nikon LX's are wonderful compacts and I love them. They actually are beautifully made. But when I compare these two new ones namely the Swaro and the Nikon it surprises me what I see. The Swaro is brighter and it has more contrast. If you just looked through the Nikon you would say WOW that is one good compact! But side by side the Swaro is better. I need some time to do some more comparisons on the two. I want to test the glare resistance and how the CA control is which I haven't had a chance to do yet. The only compact I have seen with a wider FOV is the Docter 8x21 which is 7.5 degrees or almost 400 feet but really Docters are not sold in the US and you really would not have much warranty or support if you were able to get one. I tried to buy one without success. Nobody stocks them. I am not sure what the optical reason why a compact is not built without at least a 7.5 degree AFOV. Maybe it is the smaller aperture that limits the deisgn of a WA compact.

 

[Brigadier]

Dennis,
I tried a Swaro 8x20 not long ago. I was impressed with the optics and mechanics. In bright light the only thing it obviously lacked compared to a good big binocular was a wide field of view. But the eyecups didn't extend far enough to brace them against my eyes. I had to hold it out from my face, which made it seem unsteady. I thought it admirable that such a tiny binocular had so much eye relief, and ironic that this became a disadvantage. Do you have a problem with that?
Ron

ronh, Dennis,

Because of the miniature eyecups and small exit pupils, you have to hold compacts differently to larger binoculars.

With my Swaro 8x20 and my Bushnell 7x26, I wrap my forefingers around the tops of the eyecups and then rest my knuckles against my eyebrows when I look though the binoculars. This gives a rock steady hold, maintains the right eye/eyepiece distance and keeps the exit pupil aligned with the eye. It takes a little practice but after a while it becomes natural.

I think I've logged more species with my compacts than with my bigger binos. While I appreciate the performance advantages of 40mm+ objectives, I just find them too bulky and heavy to carry and use. 32mm is enough for me. Anything bigger would only get left at home.

It's a shame that none of the Big Four makes a top-quality 7x28.

 

[pompadour]

• Brig, as an incorrigible pocket-bin man, this is the first piece of advice on bins I tried that made me "go wow!" So it's in the right thread! Works well also with the six-eyed beast (e.g. self). Thank you!

• Some info in return. Pocket bins the size of those Dennis deals with above can be carried in a regular trousers (pants) pocket. People don't notice you cary a bin. Practicable for bird-watching, though obv. not the lightning draw. Only requiremt: barrel to project a bit beyond obj. Nothing else in pocket. Eyecups up. With a little practice can avoid cloth or fingers touching lenses.

• Really looking fwd. to a comparison of the Swaro. and Leica Ultravid 20 or 25, assuming the former has been improved in the last few yrs, and by someone for whom the latter "works"; it doesn't for some, e.g. Dennis.

 

[[email protected]]

ronh, Dennis,

Because of the miniature eyecups and small exit pupils, you have to hold compacts differently to larger binoculars.

With my Swaro 8x20 and my Bushnell 7x26, I wrap my forefingers around the tops of the eyecups and then rest my knuckles against my eyebrows when I look though the binoculars. This gives a rock steady hold, maintains the right eye/eyepiece distance and keeps the exit pupil aligned with the eye. It takes a little practice but after a while it becomes natural.

I think I've logged more species with my compacts than with my bigger binos. While I appreciate the performance advantages of 40mm+ objectives, I just find them too bulky and heavy to carry and use. 32mm is enough for me. Anything bigger would only get left at home.

It's a shame that none of the Big Four makes a top-quality 7x28.

Why don't you post a picture of how you hold compacts? I am not sure I understand from your description. I use nothing bigger than my Swaro 8x32 EL's either and I totally agree that the 7x28 format would be great.

 

[[email protected]]

• Brig, as an incorrigible pocket-bin man, this is the first piece of advice on bins I tried that made me "go wow!" So it's in the right thread! Works well also with the six-eyed beast (e.g. self). Thank you!

• Some info in return. Pocket bins the size of those Dennis deals with above can be carried in a regular trousers (pants) pocket. People don't notice you cary a bin. Practicable for bird-watching, though obv. not the lightning draw. Only requiremt: barrel to project a bit beyond obj. Nothing else in pocket. Eyecups up. With a little practice can avoid cloth or fingers touching lenses.

• Really looking fwd. to a comparison of the Swaro. and Leica Ultravid 20 or 25, assuming the former has been improved in the last few yrs, and by someone for whom the latter "works"; it doesn't for some, e.g. Dennis.

Kikkert thinks the Swaro is better than the Leica here by quite a bit. I am sure they have the new Swaro 8x20. Does the Leica have dielectric prism coatings?

http://www.kikkertspesialisten.no/tester-i-63.aspx

 

[pompadour]

Dennis, in another thread I wrote re pocket bins: "Kik.sp., the Norway site, have some criteria or perceptions in their scoring which don't correspond with those of many people, incl. me ... So I did not know what to make of their remarks about the new Swaros."

Yes, Leica Ultravid pockets do have dielectric prism coatings. As I gather that's one improvement vs Trinovid pockets.

I seem to remember ? you found it hard to see the full field of view through an Ultravid pocket vs ? a Trinovid pocket, but others have found that strikingly easy, incl. a friend vs. a Swaro. pocket; so this varies with different viewers, but I don't know why.

 

[Brigadier]

• Brig, as an incorrigible pocket-bin man, this is the first piece of advice on bins I tried that made me "go wow!" So it's in the right thread! Works well also with the six-eyed beast (e.g. self). Thank you!

• Some info in return. Pocket bins the size of those Dennis deals with above can be carried in a regular trousers (pants) pocket. People don't notice you cary a bin. Practicable for bird-watching, though obv. not the lightning draw. Only requiremt: barrel to project a bit beyond obj. Nothing else in pocket. Eyecups up. With a little practice can avoid cloth or fingers touching lenses.

• Really looking fwd. to a comparison of the Swaro. and Leica Ultravid 20 or 25, assuming the former has been improved in the last few yrs, and by someone for whom the latter "works"; it doesn't for some, e.g. Dennis.

You're welcome – and thanks for your tip!

 

[Brigadier]

Why don't you post a picture of how you hold compacts? I am not sure I understand from your description. I use nothing bigger than my Swaro 8x32 EL's either and I totally agree that the 7x28 format would be great.

It's hard to take a picture of yourself holding your binos!

Just hold your compacts by wrapping your hands around the eyepiece end and then – this is the important bit – keep your forefingers pressed against your brow while you're viewing. (I also rest my left thumb on the bridge of my nose).

This style of grip keeps the two parts of the optical system – eye and bino – in the right alignment and makes for easy and steady observation, even with small exit pupils.

It's no wonder that people have trouble using compacts when they try to hold them like bigger binos!

 

[james holdsworth]

I have never tried a compact that is comfortable for regular use. Too small eyecups pinch the face, fiddly exit pupils, small sweet spots, dim in poor light, tiny focus wheels useless for anything but warm weather.

For me, they are only emergency bins for the car, or stuffed in a pocket during golf or on the beach but never a suitable replacement for a proper binoc.

 

[Troubador]

I have never tried a compact that is comfortable for regular use. Too small eyecups pinch the face, fiddly exit pupils, small sweet spots, dim in poor light, tiny focus wheels useless for anything but warm weather.

For me, they are only emergency bins for the car, or stuffed in a pocket during golf or on the beach but never a suitable replacement for a proper binoc.

James you old 'stick-in-the-mud'. Compacts will never replace full sized bins, its true, but my Victory Compact is turning out to be an invaluable, 'always-within-reach' companion.

I have got used to the characteristics and its great. I never thought I would say that about a compact but it is a really useful companion.

Zeiss-up and try one!

Lee

 

[Newbflat]

I have never tried a compact that is comfortable for regular use. Too small eyecups pinch the face, fiddly exit pupils, small sweet spots, dim in poor light, tiny focus wheels useless for anything but warm weather.

For me, they are only emergency bins for the car, or stuffed in a pocket during golf or on the beach but never a suitable replacement for a proper binoc.

Oddly, i find my Nikon 10x25's easier to place than binos with larger pupils. for me this is because my lined bifocals get in the way with 5+ mm pupils. I can bring my nikons to my eyes every time and have a clear view but my Zen-ray 8x Primes often clip my bifocals and i need to readjust. While i would rather have the view from the ZR-Primes on any given birding trip, i have never felt under gunned with my Nikons. They are sharper, brighter and better handling than i ever imagined little binos could be. Gloves work fine with me as long as there not super thick. As for small sweets spots and dim?.... maybe you need to try some better binos. My Nikons are very crisp right to the last 5% of the view and are surprisingly bright for there size. As i said above, they give away very little to my old Leica 8x32BN's. What they loose in brightness in deep shade (minimal), they make up for in more detail threw higher magnification. I have used them as my primary binos on and off for years. But i have different primary binos depending on what I'm doing. If I'm traveling all over Mexico on a bus with everything i have in a small pack.... Its the 10x25's and I'm totally satisfied and glad that there no bigger. I can take them with me everywhere and hardly notice. Since i use them more than any of my larger binos they are basically my primary pair. Are they perfect?.... no. But they are worthy. Maybe you should try some better better 'pocket' binos.

 

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I have never tried a compact that is comfortable for regular use. Too small eyecups pinch the face, fiddly exit pupils, small sweet spots, dim in poor light, tiny focus wheels useless for anything but warm weather.

For me, they are only emergency bins for the car, or stuffed in a pocket during golf or on the beach but never a suitable replacement for a proper binoc.

I used to think that way but with patience you adapt to them. Their advantanges kind of outweigh their shortcomings for me.

 

[[email protected]]

It's hard to take a picture of yourself holding your binos!

Just hold your compacts by wrapping your hands around the eyepiece end and then – this is the important bit – keep your forefingers pressed against your brow while you're viewing. (I also rest my left thumb on the bridge of my nose).

This style of grip keeps the two parts of the optical system – eye and bino – in the right alignment and makes for easy and steady observation, even with small exit pupils.

It's no wonder that people have trouble using compacts when they try to hold them like bigger binos!

Have your friend or wife take the picture. Anyway I think I got it. I pretty much hold them that way anyway. Thanks!

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis, in another thread I wrote re pocket bins: "Kik.sp., the Norway site, have some criteria or perceptions in their scoring which don't correspond with those of many people, incl. me ... So I did not know what to make of their remarks about the new Swaros."

Yes, Leica Ultravid pockets do have dielectric prism coatings. As I gather that's one improvement vs Trinovid pockets.

I seem to remember ? you found it hard to see the full field of view through an Ultravid pocket vs ? a Trinovid pocket, but others have found that strikingly easy, incl. a friend vs. a Swaro. pocket; so this varies with different viewers, but I don't know why.

I was never impressed with the Ultravid build quality. I think the NIkon's, Trinovids and especially the Swaro's were built better than the Ultravids. Yes, I had problems with ER on the Ultravids.

 

[james holdsworth]

I used to think that way but with patience you adapt to them. Their advantanges kind of outweigh their shortcomings for me.

Sure, you say that today.......