What binoculars do you think have the most WOW factor! (1 Viewer)

[FrankD]

This is actually one of the reasons why I emailed Ben and asked for a review sample of the Celestron Regal M2. I could have just ordered one but I knew full well I would be returning it as I can't afford another scope right now.

He was kind enough to offer me a review sample from their display units once they arrive.

I have returned my fair share of optics in my day but I can only think of a handful of optics I have purchased that I knew I could not or would not keep. (...and that was, of course, after I spent a great deal of time arguing with myself with how I could justify another optics' purchase. )

 

[eitanaltman]

I'm pretty sure almost all the "real" binocular review sites either buy the products they review, or request loaner samples from the manufacturers for testing. That's a good way to do it, or alternately buying the product (new or used) and then selling them at a slight loss when you are done reviewing them and/or if you just don't want to keep them.

There is nothing wrong with returns, and to be fair to Dennis he is 100% correct that it's a necessary thing for online retailers to give customers peace of mind when ordering a product "sight unseen". It's just the rampant abuse that is bothersome, since 99% of the time he never has any intention of keeping them.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm pretty sure almost all the "real" binocular review sites either buy the products they review, or request loaner samples from the manufacturers for testing. That's a good way to do it, or alternately buying the product (new or used) and then selling them at a slight loss when you are done reviewing them and/or if you just don't want to keep them.

There is nothing wrong with returns, and to be fair to Dennis he is 100% correct that it's a necessary thing for online retailers to give customers peace of mind when ordering a product "sight unseen". It's just the rampant abuse that is bothersome, since 99% of the time he never has any intention of keeping them.

I don't think the cost of shipping is the only issue. Isn't it standard practice for a returned binocular that has been used/tested to be classified as a demo unit? If so the dealer has lost quite a bit of his profit margin.

I'm still contemplating the purchase of a 10x50 roof and would like to look through the Vortex Razor HD. When I've decided it's time to purchase I'll have one sent and if it suits me I will purchase it but I certainly wouldn't order one just to look at and comment on. Truth be known I'll probably just go with the big Swarovision which I've already looked through courtesy of my local Swarovski dealer.....but I am really curious about the Razor.

Steve

 

[eitanaltman]

I mentioned that above:

They are still incurring the cost of the initial shipping as well as the lost revenue on not being able to sell the opened product as "new" after they are returned.

Your comments on the Vortex Razor 10x50 are the correct usage of an online return policy. You are legitimately interested in the product, would keep it if you liked it, can't find a place to demo it in person, and so buying online is your best option.

 

[[email protected]]

Very nice! Took alot of work to do that and it really helps. It will be interesting to try the Kowas. If they are really good I will keep them. They are almost half the price of alphas.

 

[bh46118]

Thanks

The Audubon is a binocular I would really like to see in person.

Bruce, I've spent scant time with the SE, and never A/B'd the two directly (I certainly didn't grill the SE's CA, or get to test it on the moon etc, but in non-taxing daytime viewing it was fine - I couldn't call it one way or the other based on that).

I was more concerned with image size, the 4mm EP, and general colour representation. Without resolution testing them side by side, I can only say that they both had that wonderful porro image clarity (which I'm sure you already know about)

I much preferred the 5mm EP of the Swift, and it's colour neutrality (not a fan of the red shift). The Swift is bee-right, and in gloomy conditions out did the SE from memory - I couldn't say how they'd compare in bright daylight, though the Swift visibly bests the Zen ED3 in an A/B. (don't ask me why the pupils don't dilate further in daylight to equalise the brightness of the Zen to the Swift - all I can say is what I saw - visible victory Swift).

The SE had that well known colour pop, though I think a lot of any advantage over the Swift there is due to glare control.

Sorry, not much help, but as I said in the Swift thread, worth checking out in person for US folk, to see if you can dodge the documented bullets that killed it for me.


Chosun :gh:

 

[[email protected]]

One out of six? Are you serious?

Also, to your last point, doesn't Eagle Optics offer free shipping? So you are really only paying shipping one way to return them. They are still incurring the cost of the initial shipping as well as the lost revenue on not being able to sell the opened product as "new" after they are returned.

This is an example of abusing the letter of the law while violating the spirit of the law. The policy is there to provide users with peace of mind that they can order something online and be protected if they don't like it. Or if you want to order 2-3 pairs and decide which one you like the best, then return the other two. It is NOT there to serve the needs of some amateur binocular reviewer's whimsies as you churn through dozens of pairs of bins.

Saying " if it causes them problems they can change it" is incredibly callous and selfish. Basically, you are willing to abuse their good graces and if other honest buyers end up getting penalized for your bad behavior, you don't care. Kudos to you for lacking any shame.

You guys obviously know nothing about online retailing. Your attitude is so 1980ish I can't believe how behind you are. For online retailing to succeed you have be willing to make easy returns and exchanges because people can't see and feel and try the merchandise they are buying. Amazon.com could care LESS if I return a few pairs of binoculars. I have kept several from them and I have kept several from Eagle Optics. If you don't believe me write a letter to Jeff Bezos(CEO of Amazon.com) and ask him how he feels about people who return a lot of stuff. It might surprise you. He WANTS you to try stuff and see if you like it and not feel bad about returning it because he knows people are not going to buy a lot of stuff especially stuff like clothes and shoes without trying them on. I can't find a lot of the binoculars I buy locally or I would go out and try them before I buy them. The main thing is to get and keep customers. Returns are a drop in the bucket and that is why Amazon.com has free shipping and free return shipping and it prints the return label on your computer. I hate to say it but you are very ignorant on the newer business models for online businesses.

 

[NDhunter]

Very nice! Took alot of work to do that and it really helps. It will be interesting to try the Kowas. If they are really good I will keep them. They are almost half the price of alphas.

Dennis:

Don't be in a hurry to post any review. I do assume you purchased these for
your own use.

Please keep the results to yourself, as nobody, would trust anything you
have to say.

Jerry

 

[[email protected]]

I don't think the cost of shipping is the only issue. Isn't it standard practice for a returned binocular that has been used/tested to be classified as a demo unit? If so the dealer has lost quite a bit of his profit margin.

I'm still contemplating the purchase of a 10x50 roof and would like to look through the Vortex Razor HD. When I've decided it's time to purchase I'll have one sent and if it suits me I will purchase it but I certainly wouldn't order one just to look at and comment on. Truth be known I'll probably just go with the big Swarovision which I've already looked through courtesy of my local Swarovski dealer.....but I am really curious about the Razor.

Steve

Order one from Amazon or Eagle and try it. That's what they want you to do. I guarantee you. They would rather have your business even if you return something than not have your business. You are not going to break Amazon.com by returning a pair of binoculars. Take my word for it. They could care LESS! Jeff Bezos is worth 20 billion dollars. Do you think he worries about you returning a pair of binoculars. I don't think so. You are not dealing with your family owned hardware store. You are ridiculous. Amazon does 55 million in sales each day. Every day. Do you think they are worried about your $500.00 pair of binoculars. Get real!

 

[eitanaltman]

First, there is a major distinction between Amazon and Eagle Optics. Different scale.

Second, nobody is saying it's wrong to return stuff you buy online. It's the ABUSE of the policy that is the issue. A subtle but real distinction that you either can't grasp or, more likely, choose to avoid for self serving reasons.

But whatever, I'm over it. Bring on the Kowa review!

 

[[email protected]]

Unethical and it raises the possibility that retailers might change their policy because of "serial" testers such as Dennis. The privilege to try a bino before you buy or in some instances even directly compare two binos is a customer service that shouldn't be taken advantage of. If one attains a binocular under the pretense of purchasing but has no intention of doing so he/she is simply being dishonest.

I can't imagine lying to someone about wanting to purchase a binocular if it suits me when in reality I just want to take a peek through it so I can comment on Bird Forum about it. These type of cursory reviews are interesting but of little value because they usually don't involve any field testing and the testing period is of such short duration. It's usually after months in the field that you truly learn the real worth of a binocular and things that might have seemed a mere inconvenience initially become full fledged problems.

Steve

I disagree that a cursory review is meaningless. I can arrive at 90% of a binoculars potential in a couple of days. True there are some things like focusing in the cold that it is hard to judge in that time frame but most optical parameters can be evaluated in a couple of days. I use most of the binoculars I try for a week or so and take them out in the field and use them in real world birding situations so it is not just a cursory test. I try them in different lighting situations and on different test objects and finally I try them on BIRDS to see how well they work for me. When I get the Kowa I will test it on the same smokestack and same white sky that I tested my other binoculars on for CA. So it will be interesting.

 

[[email protected]]

You guys obviously know nothing about online retailing. Your attitude is so 1980ish I can't believe how behind you are. For online retailing to succeed you have be willing to make easy returns and exchanges because people can't see and feel and try the merchandise they are buying. Amazon.com could care LESS if I return a few pairs of binoculars. I have kept several from them and I have kept several from Eagle Optics. If you don't believe me write a letter to Jeff Bezos(CEO of Amazon.com) and ask him how he feels about people who return a lot of stuff. It might surprise you. He WANTS you to try stuff and see if you like it and not feel bad about returning it because he knows people are not going to buy a lot of stuff especially stuff like clothes and shoes without trying them on. I can't find a lot of the binoculars I buy locally or I would go out and try them before I buy them. The main thing is to get and keep customers. Returns are a drop in the bucket and that is why Amazon.com has free shipping and free return shipping and it prints the return label on your computer. I hate to say it but you are very ignorant on the newer business models for online businesses.

Dennis

I'm sure they want people to try stuff because most people are intending to purchase if the item meets their needs. There is no way that they want people who have no intention of buying to waste their time and money. I also don't think Eagle Optics generous offer of letting people try binoculars is intended for those who are simply curious and have no real intention of buying.

As a matter of fact the offer is usually "try before you buy", not try so you can write a few words on Bird Forum, or try so you can claim to know about the binocular and advise forum members about its suitability based on what you remember about it before you had to send it back.The two things I find so lacking in the cursory type reviews you've been doing lately is you rarely get the binocular out in the field and because of the brevity of your binocular experience you obviously can't comment on the durability/longevity of the instrument.

Don't think for a minute that your penchant for repeatedly having binoculars sent to you that you have no intention of buying is the norm....it isn't. There are always people that will take advantage of "the system" whatever that particular system maybe. If the policy is try before you buy and you have no intention of buying then it is dishonest to have that binocular sent to you--free shipping or not.

Steve

 

[[email protected]]

First, there is a major distinction between Amazon and Eagle Optics. Different scale.

Second, nobody is saying it's wrong to return stuff you buy online. It's the ABUSE of the policy that is the issue. A subtle but real distinction that you either can't grasp or, more likely, choose to avoid for self serving reasons.

But whatever, I'm over it. Bring on the Kowa review!

I don't return every binocular I buy. I have quite a collection and a lot of times I sell them on E-bay when I find something I like better.

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis

I'm sure they want people to try stuff because most people are intending to purchase if the item meets their needs. There is no way that they want people who have no intention of buying to waste their time and money. I also don't think Eagle Optics generous offer of letting people try binoculars is intended for those who are simply curious and have no real intention of buying.

As a matter of fact the offer is usually "try before you buy", not try so you can write a few words on Bird Forum, or try so you can claim to know about the binocular and advise forum members about its suitability based on what you remember about it before you had to send it back.The two things I find so lacking in the cursory type reviews you've been doing lately is you rarely get the binocular out in the field and because of the brevity of your binocular experience you obviously can't comment on the durability/longevity of the instrument.

Don't think for a minute that your penchant for repeatedly having binoculars sent to you that you have no intention of buying is the norm....it isn't. There are always people that will take advantage of "the system" whatever that particular system maybe. If the policy is try before you buy and you have no intention of buying then it is dishonest to have that binocular sent to you--free shipping or not.

Steve

I never keep them long enough to worry about the longevity! HaHa! No, that would be hard to test. I think most modern binoculars now days if well taken care of will outlast you so why worry about it and if they don't most have very excellent warranties to cover any mishaps. Even the Chinese stuff has pretty good warranties.

 

[cycleguy]

Unethical and it raises the possibility that retailers might change their policy because of "serial" testers such as Dennis. The privilege to try a bino before you buy or in some instances even directly compare two binos is a customer service that shouldn't be taken advantage of. If one attains a binocular under the pretense of purchasing but has no intention of doing so he/she is simply being dishonest.

I can't imagine lying to someone about wanting to purchase a binocular if it suits me when in reality I just want to take a peek through it so I can comment on Bird Forum about it. These type of cursory reviews are interesting but of little value because they usually don't involve any field testing and the testing period is of such short duration. It's usually after months in the field that you truly learn the real worth of a binocular and things that might have seemed a mere inconvenience initially become full fledged problems.

Steve

I totally agree.|=)|

Guys like this abuse sellers, think nothing of it... no, take that back, they actually think it is OK!

Because these buyers are out there... and I suspect they are growing in numbers..., I will no longer clean closets thru ebay. :C

CG

 

[[email protected]]

I totally agree.|=)|

Guys like this abuse sellers, think nothing of it... no, take that back, they actually think it is OK!

Because these buyers are out there... and I suspect they are growing in numbers..., I will no longer clean closets thru ebay. :C

CG

Abuse sellers! Funny. Jeff Bezos would laugh in your face. You have no idea what you are talking about. Go get educated and read about how he feels about returns. I suggest you listen to some of his interviews and read some of business model ideas. You need to be enlightened.

 

[[email protected]]

Kowa CA test coming tomorrow. Is the Kowa really CA free. Find out here. The question finally answered. Frank's Bresser compared to the Kowa. Can a $200.00 Bresser compete with a $1200.00 Kowa? Kowa makes the best spotters but does that carry over to binoculars? Kowa compared to the top porro's.

http://www.livingbird.org/netcommunity/bbimages/lb/pdf/ScopeChart2008.pdf

 

[[email protected]]

Kowa CA test coming tomorrow. Is the Kowa really CA free. Find out here. The question finally answered. Frank's Bresser compared to the Kowa. Can a $200.00 Bresser compete with a $1200.00 Kowa? Kowa makes the best spotters but does that carry over to binoculars? Kowa compared to the top porro's.

http://www.livingbird.org/netcommunity/bbimages/lb/pdf/ScopeChart2008.pdf

I got the Kowa Genesis's 8x32 and they are very high quality and their optics are very good . I would say slightly better than the Bresser's but I did my CA test and I still see CA at the top of my black smokestack against a white sky as I do with all my binoculars. No different and no better. The sweetspot is smallish on the Kowa's I think for their price. Although the mechanics and ergonomics are very good on them I don't think they are worth $1200.00. They are not worth 6x the price of the Bresser's and they are not quite up to alpha level optics. Perhaps a rung below. Then I am trying my Bresser's and I go to screw out the eyecups and one of the eyecups FALLS off in my hand. OH GREAT! It looks like they are glued on with maybe two little spots of glue. I swear I am not buying any more Chinese POS binoculars no matter how much Frank rants and raves about them. The optics are very good on them but the build quality is crap. I have hardly used them! That would be great if you have these things in Costa Rica on an expensive birding trip and they let you down like this. Stick with your alpha's. Sorry Frank they just lost my recommendation!

 

[Pileatus]

I got the Kowa Genesis's 8x32 and they are very high quality and their optics are very good . I would say slightly better than the Bresser's but I did my CA test and I still see CA at the top of my black smokestack against a white sky as I do with all my binoculars. No different and no better. The sweetspot is smallish on the Kowa's I think for their price. Although the mechanics and ergonomics are very good on them I don't think they are worth $1200.00. They are not worth 6x the price of the Bresser's and they are not quite up to alpha level optics. Perhaps a rung below. Then I am trying my Bresser's and I go to screw out the eyecups and one of the eyecups FALLS off in my hand. OH GREAT! It looks like they are glued on with maybe two little spots of glue. I swear I am not buying any more Chinese POS binoculars no matter how much Frank rants and raves about them. The optics are very good on them but the build quality is crap. I have hardly used them! That would be great if you have these things in Costa Rica on an expensive birding trip and they let you down like this. Stick with your alpha's. Sorry Frank they just lost my recommendation!

Priceless.

 

[james holdsworth]

The movie ''Sybil'' comes to mind....