I`v got an 8x30 waiting for a service, paid just £29 for it !, the potential is plain to see, I`v no doubt it`ll be very good indeed when cleaned.
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What binoculars do you think have the most WOW factor! (1 Viewer)
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I`v got an 8x30 waiting for a service, paid just £29 for it !, the potential is plain to see, I`v no doubt it`ll be very good indeed when cleaned.
Wow. That is cheap. Where did you get it?
Fleabay, just took a punt, I tell you it may be the pick of the Alpin range, Iv tried a good few.
I bought these Vortex Stokes 8x42 DLS binoculars on Astromart. Do you think they will be optically and mechanically better than my Leupold Hawthornes 7x42 or say Franks Bresser's 8x42 ED's? Here is a review of them saying they are better than the Leupold Gold Rings and here is the link on Astromart that I bought them from for $275.00. They retailed for $900.00 when new.
http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=817819
http://www.birddigiscoper.com/2005/06/vortex-stokes-dls-versus-leupold-golden.html
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I guess even though the Leupold Hawthorne 7x42 and Franks' Bresser 8x42 ED are a value binocular and they are a good buy when you can get a $900.00 binocular for the same price as the Bresser that is even a better value. I will compare these to the Hawthorne when I get them on Monday.
So you think the Bresser is better optically than the Stokes?
I think in an older comment on them you said the Stokes were overshadowed by the newer Chinese ED binoculars. That's what I wondering if the newer Chinese ED binoculars are better. I bought the Stokes because they seemed like a good buy at that price. I will compare them to my Hawthorne's 7x42 and keep the best.
[email protected]
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Great response Frank. I deplore comparisons based on a quick glance through a binocular, especially when the encounter was in the distant past. The only thing worse is those who wax eloquently about the problem with ( or benefit of) a particular model.....and have never even used the binocular.
Steve
brownpelican1
Well-known member
I owned the 8x42 Stokes DLS a few years back. Very nice optics and fine build quality. What really stood out for me were the ergonomics, they handled very well. They were however easily outclassed optically by the Zen-Ray's IMO so I sold them on.
I currently own the predecessor to the 7x42 Hawthorn, the 7x42 Cascade. Going strictly by memory I think the Stokes and Hawthorn/Cascade are close optically and mechanically. A tough choice especially given the differences between 7x and 8x.
Are the Bresser's better than the Stokes? Optically yes. Build quality rather easily to the Stokes.
Just one man's opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
Tom
FrankD
Well-known member
Overshadowed by the original Vortex Razor which was introduced at the same time. I can't remember if the original Razor was Japanese or Chinese but it was groundbreaking until the first Chinese open-bridge bins hit the market for roughly three-fifths the price.
You feel the Bresser's are optically better than the Hawthorne's. In what area do you think the Bresser's are better besides FOV? In other words the newer Chinese binoculars that sell for $300 and less are better than a $900.00 binoculars that is 5 years old . Interesting.
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brownpelican1
Well-known member
I used the 8x42 Stokes DLS as my main birding bin for about a year and I have some impressions regarding that experience. I'm basing the following statements on those impressions which are now some 3+ years distant. With that caveat in mind lets proceed.
After further reflection I actually think the Bresser and the Hawthorne/Cascade are both more satifying optically than the Stokes. Sharpness in the sweet spot is about equal but the Bresser and Hawthorne/Cascade both have much better depth of field. The Stokes always struck me as having a flat, one demensional view. The Bresser and Hawthorne/Cascade have a wider field of view and better contrast than the Stokes.
I prefer the Bresser to the Cascade because:
1. Wider FOV
2. They are equally as bright even though the Bresser is an 8x
3. The depth of field is equal " " " " " " "
4. I like the slightly warmer color palette of the Bresser
Finally, the Zen-Ray 7x43 ED3 is clearly superior to all 4 of the bins mentioned above.
Again, just one man's opinion. TIFWIW.
I had several Zen Rays and I had a mechanical problem or optical problem with every one. I gave up on them but I guess if you are lucky enough to get a good one they perform pretty well. I just couldn't take the frustration of dealing with the Chinese lack of QC. You like the Bresser it sounds like mainly for the bigger FOV which I can understand. Most people like a 400 to 450 foot FOV but I am satisfied with 360 to 400 feet anymore if you have a big sweetspot. It surprises me the Stokes in your opinion is not that great when the one reviewer said he liked them better than the Leupold Gold Ring which to most is definitely an alpha binocular of the highest repute. Maybe I wasted my time buying the Stokes but I couldn't resist the low price of $275.00 when they retailed for $900.00. I can always turn them over on Ebay if they are a lemon like you say. The Bresser 8x42 will be just as bright as the Hawthorne 7x42 under most conditions. The only advantage the Hawthorne would have would be exit pupil size and DOF over the Bresser. Have you had any mechanical problems with the Bresser? Eyecups coming off or diopter not working?
brownpelican1
Well-known member
Dennis,
I have purchased 5 or 6 Zen-Ray's over the last few years. In two cases I found the play in the focus knob to be objectionable. I returned them and received replacements that were much better. My current Zen-Ray 7x43 ED3 has absolutely no play and is a joy to use. Other than those two focus knob issues my only other concern was what I perceived to be an issue with the right ocular on one bin. Zen-Ray checked it for me and assured me there was nothing wrong. The bin continues to perform well. I'm sorry your experience with Zen-Ray has been different.
On the subject of the Stokes DLS, if you re-read my posts above you will see that I said they had very nice optics, fine build quality and great ergos. That hardly qualifies them as "lemons". I have seen another review where the DLS was compared favorably to the Swaro EL. That was not my experience but we all see things differently. I bought my DLS for about $300. used and enjoyed them. I always felt that they were overpriced at $900 and perhaps that's why they didn't sell very well.
On the subject of the Bresser/Hawthorne/Cascade, I could happily bird with any of them. I just like the Bresser a little better for the reason's I mentioned above in post #1395. I did have a diopter problem with the Bresser and received a replacement which is working well so far. Those issues were documented over in the Bresser Everest thread.
I'm eager to hear what you think of the Stokes DLS in comparison to the other bins in this discussion. I'm betting you and I will see things differently, but as far as I'm concerned that's OK. It's often interesting to see opinions that differ from your own. Hope you feel the same.
Tom
I guess some of us are more tolerant of QC problems. I have had a lot of binoculars and the only ones I have had any problems with have been Chinese and I have had A LOT of problems so naturally I am a little gun shy of them. Maybe some of you are luckier than I. When the Zen Rays first started coming out I naturally tried them because of their perceived value just like everybody else did. Besides the lack of QC I didn't really care for the armor which to me felt plasticky and there were a lot of little cosmetic defects on the binoculars which to me just spelled cheap. I always had some kind of problem with the focus on them being either too tight or rough. I didn't like how big and long they were either. They seemed cumbersome compared to the German, Austrian or Japanese binoculars. Allbinos reviews reflects these problems with the samples they tested also so I don't think it is an isolated problem. I tried the Chinese binoculars again with Frank's Bresser's and I was thrilled with the optics but again Chinese QC let me down when less than two weeks after not even using them the eye cup falls off. I bought the Vanguard Endeavors and they are very good optically but in my opinion they LOOK CHINESE or in my opinion cheap with their silver painted bridge they just don't ooze quality like a Zeiss FL or Swarovski Habicht. Sorry that is my opinion. The Endeavors are big and long just like I remember the Zen Rays were. Not my cup of tea. If you want optical value for the dollar the Chinese can't be beat but I don't care to put up with their shortcomings and I don't like the cheap appearance of them. The Japanese built binoculars too me are much higher in quality and they LOOK higher quality. The Japanese built Leupold Hawthorne to me looks higher quality even though it is a $300.00 binocular. I haven't had any problems with it so that tells me something. Anyway I prefer porro's because I feel they are superior in optics to roofs for the way I use my binoculars. They are generally sharper on-axis and clearer and present a more natural 3D image. I have 5 porro's. The Nikon 8x32 SE, Nikon 8x30 EII, Leopold Cascade 10x42, Opticron WRHP 8x42 and the Swarovski Habicht 8x30. But I like to have a value roof to carry around sometimes and right now it is the Hawthorne 7x42. I don't think it is worth spending $2K on the alphas anymore when the gap between the alphas and the value binoculars is narrowing all the time. These $300 dollar binoculars have 95% of the performance of the alphas. If the Stokes DLS 8x42 is better I will only keep one of them.
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Ok,OK! I am going to give Zen Ray another chance. In my search for a value porro I am going to try the Zen Ray Prime HD 8x42. I consider $600.00 a value price. I will compare it and write a review on about Thursday. Hopefully Zen Ray has gotten their QC together and maybe I will finally get a Chinese binocular with some QC or will I? That question answered later in the week. Look for it on the "Wow Channel".
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