What sparrowhawk? (1 Viewer)

[Jean FRANCOIS]

Hello,
can you tell me what species this bird is?
Thank you.
Jean, for a third person.
China, Hebei Sheng, october.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

I’m not familiar with the birds of China but why not a Besra?

 

[Jean FRANCOIS]

I’m not familiar with the birds of China but why not a Besra?

The Besra does not rise as high in latitude.
I was hesitating between gularis and soloensis.
Jean

 

[Deb Burhinus]

The Besra does not rise as high in latitude.

Jean

A few records from Bejing
https://birdingbeijing.com/2016/12/22/rare-and-scarce-birds-in-beijing-2016/

It’s not a Chinese (your bird has stongly barred outer primaries) maybe Japenese then?

( for me at the moment though, I still want to stick with Besra on tail pattern and structure!)

edit - common sense will probably prevail though on basis of location given difficulty in separating the two - as I said, I’m not familiar with the region at all!

checklist here
https://avibase.bsc-eoc.org/checklist.jsp?region=CNhe&list=howardmoore

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

I'm getting a Crested Goshawk vibe. I think P10 might be flattened accounting for only 5 clear fingers being visible. Note also closely barred trousers possibly? extending on tarsi and obvious/large feet.

Birds of Beijing list both Besra and Crested Goshawk as accidental. It's certainly one or the other.

Any more images Jean?

 

[Deb Burhinus]

I think P10 might be flattened accounting for only 5 clear fingers being visible.
?

I didn’t even notice that but now looking more carefully, I think you are right!!

 

[Jean FRANCOIS]

I'm getting a Crested Goshawk vibe. I think P10 might be flattened accounting for only 5 clear fingers being visible. Note also closely barred trousers possibly? extending on tarsi and obvious/large feet.
Birds of Beijing list both Besra and Crested Goshawk as accidental. It's certainly one or the other.
Any more images Jean?

I'll ask if there are any other images.
I had noticed the wing formula, but a Crested seemed completely out of context for the province.
In any case, very enriching exchanges, thank you all.
Jean

 

[Jean FRANCOIS]

Hello,
a Crested becomes the best option.
Indeed, I was wrong about the province. This is Hubai Sheng, a province in central-eastern China, not Hebei Sheng.
Thank you again.
Jean

 

[Deb Burhinus]

I was hesitating between gularis and soloensis.
Jean

I had noticed the wing formula

Then why say this was for you either a Chinese soloensis or Japanese gularis Sparrowhawk whose respective wing formulae only shows 5 extended primaries and that looks (in the case of Chinese certainly) so obviously dissimilar to the OP? The two above statements quoted are mutually exclusive.

You didn’t mention in response to my first post, that you see a 6 pp wing formula (and had already considered but ruled out a C. Goshawk only on the basis of range) until it was mentioned by another poster later in the thread. Why not, this is a key criteria aspect of raptor identification!? It would have been helpful, given my suggestion of Besra, that it was obvious that I saw (can still see??) a 5 pp wing formula. You could have saved me some time (that I spent subsequently researching the range of Basra in China to support my suggestion especially given the muddle over the location and sp range from you in the first place)

More photos are requested because another poster suggested its not so clear from the one OP photo you have provided of the apparent wing formula and in retrospect, looking more closely I do think it’s possible that the p10 is not visible and what I thought was p10 is actually p9 - apart from that, as the alternative to CG, the OP looks like a Besra to me (much more than either Chinese or Japanese Sparrowhawk imo) - nothing to do with the range of either species.

I’m not (nor have ever) been impressed with Monday morning quarterbacking, especially when it has the effect of undermining people that are trying to help you - I am hoping this does not apply here.

 

[Jean FRANCOIS]

The two above statements quoted are mutually exclusive.

You didn’t mention in response to my first post, that you see a 6 pp wing formula Two points:

I do think it’s possible that the p10 is not visible

I’m not (nor have ever) been impressed with Monday morning quarterbacking, especially when it has the effect of undermining people that are trying to help you - I am hoping this does not apply here.

Two points:
1- I'm anything but comfortable in English !!
2- I don't necessarily always make sense of myself. |<|
I have evolved in my judgment.
At first, the only two possible were for me gularis and soloensis, for geographical reasons.
I knew later that the locality was wrong.
After your exchanges, you and Grahame, I realized that we saw the P10, hidden by the P9. Hence my "turnaround" in favor of Crested.
Sorry if I could give the impression of neglecting your opinion.
Jean