Hello everyone! These are two different individuals flying over the Greek-Turkish border, in Evros Delta. If it wasn't for what seems like a 6th finger and if the region didn't give the odd sighting of OHB every now and then, I would have no doubts that these are European, but I struggle with young birds. Can you please help in identifying if these are European or Oriental? I see online a lot of dark oriental individuals and I don't really understand the differences in darker birds.