Who is to blame (1 Viewer)

[Collster]

Yesterday as the weather was quite reasonable i decided to go check a few Peregrine sites that i know for. I have a schedule1 license so am fully covered to examine eyries. On approaching one of the sites i noticed a pile of empty lager cans on the ground directly above the usual nest site, to cut a long story short, even though both adults were present there were no eggs in the scrape the birds had made. This is the third season in a row that this pair have been deliberately disturbed .There are also two other sites which have no eggs even though both birds were present in the run up to breeding and there were plenty of bird kills about, which would indicate that they were in condition to breed.Now im not going to make allegations about any particular group that i think are responsible, but the fact that year after year Peregrines are targeted leads me to believe that i do know what group are behind this concerted effort to damage our Peregrine population. Or am i being unfair and perhaps the birds are failing for other natural reasons. Just thought that i would bring this matter to peoples attention just to highlight that raptor persecution is alive and well in the Welsh valleys

 

[Ben O]

Tragic but I think it is very risky to label any group, or encourage others to label a particular group as being responsible for a criminal act without firm proof.

Hard to imagine this thread will last long if it concentrates on speculation about who was responsible.

Ben

 

[Farnboro John]

Nothing would surprise me about lager drinkers - pass the real ale please.

John

 

[Jos Stratford]

Tragic but I think it is very risky to label any group, or encourage others to label a particular group as being responsible for a criminal act without firm proof.

But certainly very worth highlighting that this is continuing to occur and that there are elements in our society who are not enlightened ...the knowledge that some persons still engage in this might encourage a little more vigilance when out and about ...if certain persons seem to be approaching or staking out nests, to take car registration details etc.

The unfortunate part of the above quote is the "...without firm proof" - it remains sadly the case that this type of crime is, by its nature, carried out in remote localities and usually beyond the eyes of anyone concerned.

 

[Collster]

But certainly very worth highlighting that this is continuing to occur and that there are elements in our society who are not enlightened ...the knowledge that some persons still engage in this might encourage a little more vigilance when out and about ...if certain persons seem to be approaching or staking out nests, to take car registration details etc.

The unfortunate part of the above quote is the "...without firm proof" - it remains sadly the case that this type of crime is, by its nature, carried out in remote localities and usually beyond the eyes of anyone concerned.

As you say Jos this type of thing goes on season after season. I know for one site that has fledged young only twice in seventeen breeding attempts, how can that happen without mans interference? There have been a variety of ways that have been employed to disturb these birds during that time, lighting fires under the nest, just sitting above the nest to keep the bird from returning to eggs, once they( whoever they are) threw a fishing net over the nest site so the female couldn't return. This site even had a camera positioned on the nest one season, still got done. The remoteness of some of these sites coupled with the fact that it doesnt take long to nick the eggs means that we are always just too late to catch these people. The next best thing is to make sure these incidents dont pass by without people being aware of whats going on., if that happens then people might think that there is no problem regarding Peregrine persecution in Wales and elsewhere.

 

[Collster]

Tragic but I think it is very risky to label any group, or encourage others to label a particular group as being responsible for a criminal act without firm proof.

Hard to imagine this thread will last long if it concentrates on speculation about who was responsible.

Ben

I haven't labeled any group, doesn't mean that i dont know the group behind it though. Lets get one thing straight even the police know what group are targeting this particular species. Its the fact that getting evidence is usually not possible but lets not fool ourselves as to whose done and will continue to do damage to our Peregrine populations

 

[London Birder]

sadly, not just remote locales lads...how about an eyrie smack bang in the centre of London ... robbed

 

[Sancho]

Apparently Peregrine sites around here get ´done´also, on both Bray Head and Wicklow Head. I´m basing this only on hearsay in the birding community roundabout, I don´t inspect eyries or anything of the sort. A few years ago a pair of adults were poisoned, of course the finger of suspicion has been pointed at aficionados of another activity, but I don´t want to break the eighth commandment. Or is it the seventh? Or the ninth? The one about Not Bearing False Witness against your Neighbour. Not the one about Not Coveting your Neighbour´s Wife. Although I don´t want to break that one either. Well, not really.

 

[nirofo]

Yesterday as the weather was quite reasonable i decided to go check a few Peregrine sites that i know for. I have a schedule1 license so am fully covered to examine eyries. On approaching one of the sites i noticed a pile of empty lager cans on the ground directly above the usual nest site, to cut a long story short, even though both adults were present there were no eggs in the scrape the birds had made. This is the third season in a row that this pair have been deliberately disturbed .There are also two other sites which have no eggs even though both birds were present in the run up to breeding and there were plenty of bird kills about, which would indicate that they were in condition to breed.Now im not going to make allegations about any particular group that i think are responsible, but the fact that year after year Peregrines are targeted leads me to believe that i do know what group are behind this concerted effort to damage our Peregrine population. Or am i being unfair and perhaps the birds are failing for other natural reasons. Just thought that i would bring this matter to peoples attention just to highlight that raptor persecution is alive and well in the Welsh valleys

Hi valley boy

Sorry to hear your Peregrines have either been deliberately kept off the nest so that they didn't lay, or their eggs have been stolen. I've had this happen with Goshawk in the past, where the local keeper knew that we were keeping tabs on the nest, so he chopped firewood all one day, right in full view of the nest! when we arrived the next day there was a big pile of firewood and the birds had deserted the nest. when we confronted him he swore he didn't realise the nest was there, (as if we believed him). With the Peregrines the keepers or certain others with an ulterior motive, (we all know who) take either the eggs or the young, sometimes the Peregrines just mysteriously disappear?

nirofo.

 

[Collster]

Hi valley boy

Sorry to hear your Peregrines have either been deliberately kept off the nest so that they didn't lay, or their eggs have been stolen. I've had this happen with Goshawk in the past, where the local keeper knew that we were keeping tabs on the nest, so he chopped firewood all one day, right in full view of the nest! when we arrived the next day there was a big pile of firewood and the birds had deserted the nest. when we confronted him he swore he didn't realise the nest was there, (as if we believed him). With the Peregrines the keepers or certain others with an ulterior motive, (we all know who) take either the eggs or the young, sometimes the Peregrines just mysteriously disappear?

nirofo.

Hi Nirofo, as you say these people know exactly what they are doing when they apply a variety of means to obtain their objective- to stop these raptors breeding. Since my original posting there are a number of other well established pairs that have failed for whatever reason. I have spoken to the local wildlife liason officer ,who is well up for catching these people, and hopefully something will be done, but i doubt it as they have done the deed and moved on.Down this way we know what people are behind it, but getting the proof is difficult. Apart from the time when the idiots left their telephone number on their" calling card", they got done for that incident. The perrys that nest closest to me have had success for the last two seasons and are sitting now, they used to get persecuted yearly but its suprising what a few words in the right ears can achieve. Now these people leave the perrys alone as they realise that they are open for some tit for tat response ....

 

[Gill Osborne]

I know for one site that has fledged young only twice in seventeen breeding attempts, how can that happen without mans interference?

Absolutely sickening and totally unjustified!!! :storm: I know what I would do to these ignorant folk!!!
It just beggars belief that in this day and age of wider education and knowledge of predators' behaviour that certain groups will still persecute them in the mistaken belief that they are causing a decline in their prey items!

Good luck with catching these scum and getting them the treatment they deserve!

 

[timeshadowed]

Why not set up 24 hr night vision webcams at all of the nests. That way, maybe the authorities could catch these guys in action - all on tape too!

TimeShadowed

 

[Collster]

Why not set up 24 hr night vision webcams at all of the nests. That way, maybe the authorities could catch these guys in action - all on tape too!

TimeShadowed

Good idea but unfortunately there wouldnt be the resources available.A certain site is monitored by a camera providing interested people somewhere they can go to watch these birds , but as for watching all sites it wouldn't work due to the expense and the fact that Peregrine numbers have increased to a level where i suppose a few losses are deemed acceptable( not by me i hasten to add). It does annoy me that year after year these birds are subjected to this persecution and nearly always the guilty get away with it

 

[Collster]

Absolutely sickening and totally unjustified!!! :storm: I know what I would do to these ignorant folk!!!
It just beggars belief that in this day and age of wider education and knowledge of predators' behaviour that certain groups will still persecute them in the mistaken belief that they are causing a decline in their prey items!

Good luck with catching these scum and getting them the treatment they deserve!

I too find it hard to get my head around the fact that ill informed groups take it upon themselves to interfere with nature just to safeguard their interests. Not a thought for anyone else just themselves. No regard for the nature lovers who feel privileged to have these magnificent falcons nesting close by and enjoy the aerial displays. Doubt that these people will be caught, but at least by recording and reporting these incidents it keeps people and the authorities updated about an ongoing problem

 

[nirofo]

Hi Nirofo, as you say these people know exactly what they are doing when they apply a variety of means to obtain their objective- to stop these raptors breeding. Since my original posting there are a number of other well established pairs that have failed for whatever reason. I have spoken to the local wildlife liason officer ,who is well up for catching these people, and hopefully something will be done, but i doubt it as they have done the deed and moved on.Down this way we know what people are behind it, but getting the proof is difficult. Apart from the time when the idiots left their telephone number on their" calling card", they got done for that incident. The perrys that nest closest to me have had success for the last two seasons and are sitting now, they used to get persecuted yearly but its suprising what a few words in the right ears can achieve. Now these people leave the perrys alone as they realise that they are open for some tit for tat response ....

Hi valley boy

We've tried the approach of informing the local wildlife liaison officer, the local police officer, the SNH, the RSPB and uncle Tom Cobbly and all, all with nil results to show for it! It's as if nobody cares? We've had the usual promises, 'OH' I'm surprised that nests been done, we'll look into it is the general response, usually after the event when the eggs or young or adults have disappeared. Like yourself, we had one particular Peregrine site that laid eggs year after year, sometimes the eggs disappeared, other times the young disappeared, the only time it succeeded in 13 attempts was when we put a hide on it, (with appropriate Sched One licence)? The RSPB and what was then the NCC (Nature Conservancy Council) were informed year after year with no action? From the latest Raptor reports it looks as though the Peregrine population is on a downward trend again, especially in the Highlands of Scotland. Many of the reclaimed eyeries have now been abandoned again.

nirofo.

 

[Collster]

Hi valley boy

We've tried the approach of informing the local wildlife liaison officer, the local police officer, the SNH, the RSPB and uncle Tom Cobbly and all, all with nil results to show for it! It's as if nobody cares? We've had the usual promises, 'OH' I'm surprised that nests been done, we'll look into it is the general response, usually after the event when the eggs or young or adults have disappeared. Like yourself, we had one particular Peregrine site that laid eggs year after year, sometimes the eggs disappeared, other times the young disappeared, the only time it succeeded in 13 attempts was when we put a hide on it, (with appropriate Sched One licence)? The RSPB and what was then the NCC (Nature Conservancy Council) were informed year after year with no action? From the latest Raptor reports it looks as though the Peregrine population is on a downward trend again, especially in the Highlands of Scotland. Many of the reclaimed eyeries have now been abandoned again.

nirofo.

Hi Nirofo, i can see where you are coming from with regards to the response of the authorities. The WLO down this way is ok, but there needs to be proactive steps taken to halt this yearly occurence. We are always there after the fact. It seems to me that the authorities could stamp out most of this by going all out to nail someone. There are several sites done yearly( you probably have the same situation with you), the easy answer would be a 24 hour watch on these sites until someone turns up and then they are caught. If they are Pf or gamekeepers then get the publicity machine going and hammer them when it comes to court. This action would be needed every season until the message gets home that the sites are watched.It aint rocket science to carry out just doesn't seem to get done. There is limited amount to spend with regards to conservation thats understandable, but surely this sort of thing has been allowed to flourish unchecked for too long.