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Why are some people vehemently against reintroductions? (1 Viewer)

jqmhelios

Well-known member
I've been browsing sites on birdwatching, including this one, recently, and have been appalled at the very large number of people, birdwatchers, protesting against, holding a grudge against, and even boycotting organisations supporting the reintroduction of native animals back to the UK, for example:

1. The great bustard reintroduction is getting a lot of hate everywhere. Great bustards are native animals which were exterminated. The Great Bustard group is bringing them back- bit by bit- and there are even reports of egg-laying, with one young joining the adult herd recently. Despite this, a lot of people are vicing hate over this project, and this is something I seriously don't understand. Great bustards deserve to be brought back, and this reintroduction project has my full support and I hope it goes ahead no matter how many people speak up against it, to someday create a self-sustaining population. I will definitely visit the area and view the birds as truly wild birds now.

2. I've seen the reintroduction of ospreys in England, particularly Rutland Water, get a lot of hatred. Again, I seriously don't understand why. People aren't screaming at red kites when they got brought back, so why do they do this? Personally I hope Anglian Water ignores all 'criticism' (in reality just hate spam) and the ospreys disperse to breed at other locations. They are doing so already, actually. I have made plans to visit and see them firsthand in the summer.

3. The Great Crane Project has suffered a tremendous backlash. It aims to bring a bird destroyed by human means in the UK back, and received a giant amount of hate everywhere, with some far-right extremists even boycotting organisations, particularly a cereal organisation, which supported the project.

4. I've even seen some people yell out that white-tailed eagle reintroductions should be stopped and never should have been carried out.

5. I've even seen some people get triggered at the Knepp Estate white stork reintroduction, which is also a native bird.

This should be a restoration of what was lost, and if there is an extremist group of naturalists claiming everything should go naturally, claiming red kites should not be fed, they should be ignored. What I don't understand is why people are vehemently protesting the return of native birds back. Such birdwatchers are not birdwatchers, they are people trying to prevent the ecological recovery of the UK
 

Mono

Hi!
Staff member
Supporter
Europe
The UK is not a zoo, or shouldn't be, where we humans tinker about and add or subtract the flora and fauna we desire.

The UK now is not the UK of 1000 years ago, or 100 years ago or even 50 years ago. The birds listed above were extirpated due to a combination of direct killing or to different agricultural practices changing habitats. If killing persists or the habitats remains in their modern form what is point of artificially introducing birds that will not thrive or be actively killed? If you have restored the habitats and eliminated the direct threats then give the birds the opportunity to return. It is not an "extremist" view to want nature to develop naturally.
 

Welsh Peregrine

Well-known member
From my point of view, I would prefer it if reintroductions were not needed, as I feel it is exerting too much control over nature. I am not convinced White Storks were a regular part of the UK avifauna, and osprey populations have increased and spread without needing reinforcements. However, I am in favour of bringing back Great Bustards, which would be here if it were not for humans, and in favour of mammal reintroductions including wolves.
 

DMW

Well-known member
What would be the point in responding constructively to a diatribe like this where you use words such as "hate" (=oppose) and "yell" (=voice opposition) in an attempt to paint alternative views to your own as extreme and irrational, and make it clear you aren't going to change your opinion regardless. This is a topic where there are reasonable arguments on both sides, and where one size does not fit all. It's perfectly rational to be in favour of some reintroductions but oppose others, for various reasons.
 

dwatsonbirder

Well-known member
Hi again Gleb:


I know, I know, you're not Gleb, you're Jake.

Man, these endless, ranting, reactionary, ill informed threads threads on rewilding are tiresome... I'm surprised that people bother to reply, and even more surprised that I too passed over the bridge and paid the troll!
 

Nutcracker

Stop Brexit!
The most serious legitimate complaint I've seen about these reintroductions is that they divert large amounts of scarce funding away from other schemes that might help other endangered wildlife.
 

jqmhelios

Well-known member
Excuses that the UK was not the same place as it was back then aren't good enough. It has been verified as fact that most of these species were wiped out directly. If they aren't brought back, what should be done, just let the UK lose fauna all the time to extirpation and then try to explain that it does not belong here because the UK 'isn't the same place'?
By your logic, white-tailed eagles and ospreys should neve rhave been brought back. Frankly, Nature England doesn't seem to care about that, and rightfully cares abourt restoring the fauna. Evidently, the UK hasn't changed for WTEs. Nor has it changed for most other birds brought back. However, the UK was an inhospitable environment for LA pheasants. It, however, ensures eagle owls flourish, white-tailed eagles becoming a major tourist attraction.
That is direct disproof of the UK changing significantly enough to make their return undesirable. WTEs act in the same way as before, eagle owls the same, bustards hanging on but the same. They are thriving.
 

jqmhelios

Well-known member
The most serious legitimate complaint I've seen about these reintroductions is that they divert large amounts of scarce funding away from other schemes that might help other endangered wildlife.
It must be well proportioned and looked after, true, but the thing about these reintroduction is they themselves lead to huge profits when tourists see the eagles, for instance. They are beneficial even in that. And step one in what you describe is abolishing grouse moors. Except nobody's interested in that anymore
 

PYRTLE

Old Berkshire Boy
Hi again Gleb:
I know, I know, you're not Gleb, you're Jake.
Man, these endless, ranting, reactionary, ill informed threads threads on rewilding are tiresome... I'm surprised that people bother to reply, and even more surprised that I too passed over the bridge and paid the troll!
It's just a carbon copy of Gleb's previous nonsensical mutterings, fishing and modus operandi that one could easily be forgiven for thinking that Gleb's coincidental disappearance is due to Jake devouring him whilst at Wicken Fen. Next thing will be Coypu back into Norfolk.

All the best folks.

Edit: I dont wish to be unkind to you jqmhelios but I was drawn to respond like a moth to a flame.
 
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jqmhelios

Well-known member
It's just a carbon copy of Gleb's previous nonsensical mutterings, fishing and modus operandi that one could easily be forgiven for thinking that Gleb's coincidental disappearance is due to Jake devouring him whilst at Wicken Fen. Next thing will be Coypu back into Norfolk.

All the best folks.

Edit: I dont wish to be unkind to you jqmhelios but I was drawn to respond like a moth to a flame.
Does Quora policy permit incessant trolling and insulting of individuals? I've reported all of you and hope the moderators take action, because you are violating forum rules
 

Andy Adcock

Well-known member
England
Does Quora policy permit incessant trolling and insulting of individuals? I've reported all of you and hope the moderators take action, because you are violating forum rules
Of course it does, I've had it for years on here and don't forget the unwarranted insults with no right of reply.
 

jqmhelios

Well-known member
Keep laughing, we'll see who is laughing at the end. And also, I was never banned.
To put this thread back on track and ignoring the trolls from this point onwards and awaiting moderator action against them, is it just prejudice against reintroductions?
So far I've seen only one valid point, and even that is not enough to explain, for example, why the Great Crane Project got such a tremendous backlash
 

Mono

Hi!
Staff member
Supporter
Europe
The UK has changed for White-tailed Eagles, they are protected. Persecution by farmers and crofters has largely stopped. In this case the chance of natural colonization was slim and I feel that artificial means were necessary but I don't feel that they are filling an unfilled ecological niche.
 

Andy Adcock

Well-known member
England
Keep laughing, we'll see who is laughing at the end. And also, I was never banned.
To put this thread back on track and ignoring the trolls from this point onwards and awaiting moderator action against them, is it just prejudice against reintroductions?
So far I've seen only one valid point, and even that is not enough to explain, for example, why the Great Crane Project got such a tremendous backlash
Unless they are called Andy Adcock, you might have a bit of a wait.
 

jqmhelios

Well-known member
The UK has changed for White-tailed Eagles, they are protected. Persecution by farmers and crofters has largely stopped. In this case the chance of natural colonization was slim and I feel that artificial means were necessary but I don't feel that they are filling an unfilled ecological niche.
I fully agree, but shouldn't it then also apply to ospreys and great bustards, which also have a near-zero chance of recolonisation, and for the second one especially so given populations are crashing all over Europe?
Maybe so, however I'm still happy that an animal is back to the UK, but I understand at least, now
 

Mono

Hi!
Staff member
Supporter
Europe
The bustards have zero chance of spreading off the carefully managed Salisbury Plain out into the intensive farmland surrounding it. The money would be better spent on supporting the extant but threatened populations.
 

Andy Adcock

Well-known member
England
The problem that most people have with reintro's, is that they are perceived as vanity projects. They introduce what are largely common and widespread species, taking funding which could be used in much more beneficial ways.
 

jqmhelios

Well-known member
Maybe so, however I still think it is a good idea because of course it is bringing something back to the UK, and even then support for other birds will never work because of persecution, which unless stopped would hamper any restoration effort for raptor birds. Even if the attempt fails and they remain on carefully-managed Salisbury Plain, isn't that basically exactly what was happening with the golden orioles, which bred in only one place in the UK, a managed place?
Other, non-persecuted species could of course flourish, true.
I don't think for Nature England the issue of common and widespread species stands. They just want to bring extinct animals back.
The most threatened species in the UK, as far as I understand, are:
Montagu's harrier (EXTINCT- however I accept this may also have been an agricultural problem, not just persecution, as well as migration)
Hen harrier (Reintroduction schemes destroyed by RSPB contacting SEO, could have worked)
Willow tit (I only know of one site, maybe pollution is wiping them out?)
Lesser-spotted woodpecker (Maybe someone can explain why this one is declining so fast? Maybe sparrowhawks?)
Bittern (Doing very well at some sites but extinct everywhere else)
Corncrake (Reintroductions to Nene Washes and Wensum valley caused a ton of hate among birdwatchers)
I think a balance needs to be reached- conserve extant species and reintroduce. The Great Bustard Group has my full support, like I said, but I can't help but lament why such groups are not formed to protect corncrakes and stuff.
Another benefit of reintroducing large, impressive birds is they are a tourist attraction basically. for example, I already have plans to go to Mull as soon as possible. The Mull business is producing a huge amount of money which is directed towards conservation- there's no reason why the same shouldn't be allowed for bustards, which to me are even more beautiful. Most reintroductions I know are secret ones, and if some were reintroduced on reserves with hides, they would attract a lot of people, and get adequately protected as a result. This concerns the Lyndon center as well- Anglian Water basically funded that because they wanted the return of a bird on their lands. I also fully support the return of white storks, Knepp Estate are kings. If only more were convinced to do this...
Where do you think the money should go, what species, what reserves?
Either way, for migratory species this gets worse. I wouldn't even attempt to reintroduce migratory species now because that introduces a very high risk of death on migration routes. Osprey and corncrake are proven exceptions, however. Reintroducing orioles is madness no matter how much it pains me to say this- their range has shifted, they'll just disappear again
 

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