IAN JAMES THOMPSON
Well-known member

Robin Orange-breast | BirdNote
What’s in a name? Sometimes an eye-opening plunge into history.
It was covered on QI a few years back exactly as you have said Mono.Red was actually the word for the colour we now call orange. The colour we now call red was called scarlet.
Until the word 'orange' entered the English language, that shade was included under red. 'Orange' is derived from an area, Naranja (I think in Murcia), thanks to a misunderstanding from the largely monoglot English involved in their 'discovery' of the cultivated fruit. The location was correctly written in the documentation of the period, but was read by others as Nar-AN-je; initially the fruit was called in English 'a norringe', but repeated verbal use changed that to 'an oranj(e)', later 'corrected' by scholars to 'an orange'. The Royal Navy came to adopt the orange, the lemon and finally the lime to combat scurvy.Question as above! Why is a Robiin Redbreast not called a Robin Orangebreast? As a Robin’s underpart is actually coloured Orange and nor Red! Answer here! And this is absolutely true!![]()
Robin Orange-breast | BirdNote
What’s in a name? Sometimes an eye-opening plunge into history.www.birdnote.org
Some Robins are redder than others though? A European thing or am I imagining it?
Not quite. From about the mid-17th-century the House of Orange-Nassau** increasing its influence in western Europe, becoming the Royal House of the Netherlands. (I blame William the Silent: he should have spoken up!) The 'Orange' part derives from Claudia of Châlon-Orange of French Burgundy marrying in 1515 Henry III of Nassau-Breda from German Palatinates or Princedoms.Does this mean that all the birds named "orange something" were discovered after the word orange was brought into use?
Never heard of an area in Spain (where I was born to) called Naranja. Rather, is how oranges are called in spanish. It could be, of course.Until the word 'orange' entered the English language, that shade was included under red. 'Orange' is derived from an area, Naranja (I think in Murcia), thanks to a misunderstanding from the largely monoglot English involved in their 'discovery' of the cultivated fruit. The location was correctly written in the documentation of the period, but was read by others as Nar-AN-je; initially the fruit was called in English 'a norringe', but repeated verbal use changed that to 'an oranj(e)', later 'corrected' by scholars to 'an orange'. The Royal Navy came to adopt the orange, the lemon and finally the lime to combat scurvy.
Incidentally, on another source of confusion on colour in the English language, 'Lincoln Green' is a term for a particular weave of cloth, which originally was produced in red or green. Therefore it's likely that the tales about Robin Hood and his Merry Men wearing Lincoln Green were originated by people who knew the weave, but were well aware that the apparel was in most cases a dull red! The one outlaw in the fable who stood out, was of course Will Scarlet in his bright red outfit!
MJB
Maybe the man from Del Monte is in fact the Man of Naranja....Never heard of an area in Spain (where I was born to) called Naranja. Rather, is how oranges are called in spanish. It could be, of course.
Cheers
Possible, but possibly not quite! This point has also been covered by QI: I quote in part the Scottish Wildlife Trust's similar version;Am I right in thinking they were originally generally considered Redbreast with Robin a nickname/local name like 'Jenny' Wren?
No, my copy of Not BB has the entry but it is definitely "Northern Red-breasted Robin-chat"!I seem to remember a proposed English name change (possibly in Not-BB):
“Robin” to become “Northern Orange-breasted Robin-chat”