Why is the RSPB SO against eagle-owls? (1 Viewer)

[King Edward]

I’m not sure of the RSPB’s current stance on EOs. I haven’t done any workfor them for several years (part of which involved Hedgehog conservation btw!) - the last I heard I think the thinking was it was not regarded as native sp and due to the potential predatory impact on HH, should not be allowed to recolonise from the escaped population.

My understanding is that there are a very small number of records (maybe only 1?) from the early Holocene at a time when the climate was broadly similar to today, but that it's unclear when & why the species died out.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

My understanding is that there are a very small number of records (maybe only 1?) from the early Holocene at a time when the climate was broadly similar to today, but that it's unclear when & why the species died out.

That’s my understanding too but I don’t speak for the RSPB. (or for BOU!)
The provenance of the EOs in the UK (and whether to cull them)and the debate on whether it was ever a native breeder has been going on for the past 15 years in my memory and became extremely passionate on both sides when the Bowland owls were filmed attacking a nesting HH (2010?)

How many breeding pairs of EOs are we really talking about? 30-40 in the whole of the UK? And how many raptors have been killed by EO? - I’ve only seen 2 EOs in the wild in the UK (that’s not twitching or actively looking) so we’re not exactly over-run with them.

The only reason our population of Hen Harriers would be so vulnerable as a breeding sp is because they keep getting bl00dy shot or poisoned so are already on the brink. Dealing once and all with that should be the the very first order of business. How fortuitous for those responsible for Hen Harrier persecution that the spotlight turns to convenient scapegoat such as the EO. Given the amount that are supposedly escaping every year I can’t help wondering anyway if their productivity in the UK as a breeding species is suppressed for genetic or ecological reasons or a simply that a significant number of escaped pets do not adapt to being in the wild.

 

[dantheman]

Don't think its's been explicitly mentioned on this thread (?) but a reasonable number of EOs about turn out to be or are suspected of being species/race other than Eurasian Eagle Owl. Which obviously muddies the waters/detracts.

Ta for the hedgehog replies earlier.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Don't think its's been explicitly mentioned on this thread (?) but a reasonable number of EOs about turn out to be or are suspected of being species/race other than Eurasian Eagle Owl. Which obviously muddies the waters/detracts.

Ta for the hedgehog replies earlier.

Was the recent Norfolk bird ever assigned to species? I remember discussing it then lost track.

 

[wolfbirder]

Hen Harrier is one of the most beautiful birds to be seen on our shores, I can't take anyone that seriously who would be happy to see what remains of this beautiful raptor wiped out.

And I quite like Eagle Owls.

 

[Gleb Berloff]

I know hen harriers are beautiful, but that does not mean what eats them should be destroyed.
These species coexist in the mainland, in Scotland hen harriers live alongside golden eagles which are much more powerful birds, eagle owls are not going to track down specifically hen harriers on purpose. So one owl attacked a hen harrier. Big deal- this owl is never going to wipe out all hen harriers in the UK.
However, it is a native species, and its extinction date has been determined as 2,000 years ago. For comparison the lynx vanished 1,300 years ago and the stork 604 years ago. It is definitely a native species, and the problem I think people have with it is hen harriers, though that in no way should be a reason to even limit their spread. This is one example of if something rare and beautiful is being killed people get enraged at the perpetrator which is a simple and beautiful owl which is NATIVE and actually could help deal with the massive roe deer problem. Capercaillie is almost gone as well- should we get rid of golden eagles as well? Montagu's harrier is almost gone- should we get rid of what preys on them as well?
Nothing I have seen on this thread makes me seriously think their spread should be stopped. I love the RSPB- they preach about protecting birds yet want to wipe out a native species. All because of a flappy bird which is beautiful.

 

[Gleb Berloff]

That’s my understanding too but I don’t speak for the RSPB. (or for BOU!)
The provenance of the EOs in the UK (and whether to cull them)and the debate on whether it was ever a native breeder has been going on for the past 15 years in my memory and became extremely passionate on both sides when the Bowland owls were filmed attacking a nesting HH (2010?)

How many breeding pairs of EOs are we really talking about? 30-40 in the whole of the UK? And how many raptors have been killed by EO? - I’ve only seen 2 EOs in the wild in the UK (that’s not twitching or actively looking) so we’re not exactly over-run with them.

The only reason our population of Hen Harriers would be so vulnerable as a breeding sp is because they keep getting bl00dy shot or poisoned so are already on the brink. Dealing once and all with that should be the the very first order of business. How fortuitous for those responsible for Hen Harrier persecution that the spotlight turns to convenient scapegoat such as the EO. Given the amount that are supposedly escaping every year I can’t help wondering anyway if their productivity in the UK as a breeding species is suppressed for genetic or ecological reasons or a simply that a significant number of escaped pets do not adapt to being in the wild.

You know I can't believe people take their anger out on hen harriers. You know I would understand eagles- but not harriers.
And I can't believe the government is sitting around doing nothing. Catch someone- give them a 10,000 dollar fine, shut their business- that will deter a lot of people. Driven grouse moors seem to be a massive problem- walked up moors not so much.
And yes you are right, it seems the RSPB now has something to blame for the hen harrier problem. Whereas hen harriers can just as easily be destroyed by goshawks or eagles.

 

[SlowLowFlyingTurkey]

Deb Burhinus: How fortuitous for those responsible for Hen Harrier persecution that the spotlight turns to convenient scapegoat such as the EO.

And yes you are right, it seems the RSPB now has something to blame for the hen harrier problem.

Gleb, are you seriously accusing the RSPB of Hen Harrier persecution?

 

[Sangahyando]

These species coexist in the mainland

Where there's more space and often larger numbers of HH.

in Scotland hen harriers live alongside golden eagles which are much more powerful birds,

That's not an argument. Eagle Owls are strong enough. The question is which species is more likely to harm HH and other vulnerable native species.

So one owl attacked a hen harrier. Big deal- this owl is never going to wipe out all hen harriers in the UK.

They routinely prey on smaller raptors, moreover at night, when the other birds are much more vulnerable.

This is one example of if something rare and beautiful is being killed people get enraged at the perpetrator which is a simple and beautiful owl which is NATIVE and actually could help deal with the massive roe deer problem.

How are EO supposed to help with the Roedeer problem (assuming there is one)?

 

[Mono]

Apart from a third hand quote from grouse shooter and RSPB arch-enemy Ian Botham, what evidence have we been given that the RSPB are anti Eagle Owls let alone want a cull?

 

[Tui Rblx]

It came as a huge shock that the RSPB wants the eagle-owls culled. And the reasons they provide are quite stupid in my view. so the eagle-owl dines on hen harriers. These species coexist outside the UK perfectly normally, and the situation in England is a little hard to believe because I have seen hen harriers with my own eyes and nothing about them suggests they are as big a threat to farmers as made out to be.
It is already strange the RSPB is doing nothing to reintroduce hen harriers to places where they were lost- but massacring birds who eat hen harriers? That isn't how the RSPB is supposed to operate. Furthermore whereas eagle-owls hunt at night and may simply by chance stumble upon a hen harrier nest, other predators like golden eagles and goshawks hunt by day and can easily attack and kill a harrier. The RSPB protects these birds- so why not the eagle owl, which has been proven several times to be a native species?
I sincerely hope that the eagle-owl is left to its own devices, even if it destroys some harrier nests. If you remember an angling society wanted beavers culled allegedly because of fictional damage they can do. It was only very recently they were allowed to stay. Furthermore lynx will easily kill harriers if they catch them- and there are almost back.
The RSPB only hates eagle owls. The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds hates owls. And not a single reason I have ever seen is enough for me to seriously consider the remote possibility they are so dangerous- harriers are not their only food source. Put them in a place with no harriers like Thetford forest and they will actually do a huge benefit there.
To be perfectly honest I feel the eagle-owl will bring much more benefits than the hen harrier. Hen harriers do what?
Eagle- owls can kill prey up to the size of a muntjac deer. That is one way of getting rid of the ridiculous surplus of deer which are destroying the Caledonian forests and everything else. Hen harriers are powerless here.
I would leave them alone, even if it meant the entire Bowland population of harriers would be decimated. I would choose to protect something which is not only beautiful but also brings real benefits. In fact, eagle-owls can easily take down foxes, actually reducing the risk to farmers.
I hope the Government uses its head and rejects the RSPBs pleas to save the harrier and kill the owl. Even if the owls wipe out the harriers, they can still survive on Mull and other places. And they can be reintroduced.
If such a massive and powerful bird like the white tailed eagle was brought back amidst desperate pleas from farmers to stop, hen harriers will be brought back even more easily.
My opinion of the RSPB has dropped hugely after finding out about this. So some pretty bird will be killed a bit. Big deal. But something native and hugely benefitial to Britain will take its place. And to be perfectly honest I think half of claimed killings by farmers of hen harriers can be related to an opportunistic goshawk attack, which often go on berserk rampages if anything approaches their nest.
I applaud the efforts of the conservation right-mind who wants to create a huge reserve with lynx, eagle-owls, bears and wolves.

Honestly, everysingle Country needs a proper APEX Predator. They should 100% Re-introduce these owls in the United Kingdom.

 

[Mono]

There is little evidence that Eagle Owls were ever native in post-glacial Britain so it would not be a re-introduction. What Britain needs is a mesh of thriving interconnected habitats that can support biodiversity at all levels. Trying to reconstruct some putative past idyll by introducing some halo apex predator is mostly just vanity. Britian needs a holistic approach that supports nature at all levels not a glorified safari park.

 

[Tui Rblx]

There is little evidence that Eagle Owls were ever native in post-glacial Britain so it would not be a re-introduction. What Britain needs is a mesh of thriving interconnected habitats that can support biodiversity at all levels. Trying to reconstruct some putative past idyll by introducing some halo apex predator is mostly just vanity. Britian needs a holistic approach that supports nature at all levels not a glorified safari park.

As they prey on Hen Harriers (which are declining), They should wait till their status turns Green in the United Kingdom. However they are a few sightings of Eagle Owls in the UK. They should NOT introduce eagle owls and a much more appropriate owl in the UK, The Snowy Owl. As they have been sighted a lot in the United Kingdom during winter and spring. Kind of changed my mind about of introducing Eagle Owls. Snowy Owl's would be much better.

 

[PYRTLE]

They should wait till their status turns Green in the United Kingdom. Are you serious? Hen Harriers returning to widespread and unthreatened?

Snowy Owl's would be much better. Re read the answers please.....its about safeguarding and creating habitat for a wide range of biodiversity, not a fenced off park for a few Lynx, Wolves, Bison

 

[wolfbirder]

As they prey on Hen Harriers (which are declining), They should wait till their status turns Green in the United Kingdom. However they are a few sightings of Eagle Owls in the UK. They should NOT introduce eagle owls and a much more appropriate owl in the UK, The Snowy Owl. As they have been sighted a lot in the United Kingdom during winter and spring. Kind of changed my mind about of introducing Eagle Owls. Snowy Owl's would be much better.

I’m no expert but are you sure they prey on Hen Harriers?

It takes time but reading that 2010 report on the 1st page is very revealing.

 

[Jos Stratford]

I’m no expert but are you sure they prey on Hen Harriers?

It takes time but reading that 2010 report on the 1st page is very revealing.

They are fairly prolific hunters of birds, so I am sure they do on occasion. A pair I knew here some years ago fed almost every night on nesting Blackheaded Gulls, picking them off nests. Was also a video on BF some time ago of one taking a Buzzard (if I remember well) chick off a cliff nest

 

[Andy Adcock]

Honestly, everysingle Country needs a proper APEX Predator. They should 100% Re-introduce these owls in the United Kingdom.

There is no solid evidence to suggest that they were ever native to the UK IIRC. They also prey on our declining Hedghogs.

 

[wolfbirder]

They are fairly prolific hunters of birds, so I am sure they do on occasion. A pair I knew here some years ago fed almost every night on nesting Blackheaded Gulls, picking them off nests. Was also a video on BF some time ago of one taking a Buzzard (if I remember well) chick off a cliff nest

There was a rumour that they found feathers of a HH in the Dunsop Bridge Eagle owl nest, but turned out to be BH Gull.
But yes they can take anything but most of their diet is rabbits and gulls according to that interesting but long read (link on page 1), even where other raptors co-exist.

They seem adamant Eagle Owl fossils have been found in UK.

 

[Jos Stratford]

But yes they can take anything but most of their diet is rabbits and gulls according to that interesting but long read

Depending on availability No rabbits here (and no inland gulls in winter).

 

[PYRTLE]

Was also a video on BF some time ago of one taking a Buzzard (if I remember well) chick off a cliff nest

Yes, remember watching in disbelief as the nocturnal video showed an EO snatching an almost fledged Long Legged Buzzard fron a cliff nest.