Wind farms (1 Viewer)

[Tyke]

You are not the only ones with this blight, we already have 30 Turbines off Herne Bay and now we have this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/5304774.stm

Not happy

Mick

The London Array is one enormous project-271 turbines covering 60,000 acres of sea, 12 miles off the North Kent coast. During the four years it will take to build its going to knock six bells out of the North Kent Marshes around Graveney, which will be home to major on-shore infrastructure.The cables will be laid in the Swale.
During the EA they discovered twice the population of wintering Red Throated Divers in the Wind Farm area-the Developer proposed it should be designated an SPA!!
This is what their web site says about the impact on the wintering Divers :-

Q. Isn’t the Red Throated Diver protected?
It is listed as an Annex 1 species under EU legislation (the Wild Birds Directive1979). In our case, this means that potential developments can go ahead if there are no significant ecological impacts expected. With the numbers found by our surveys, in our view some or all of the Thames Estuary should be designated as a Special Protection Area (under the Habitats Directive). This would mean that potential developments could go ahead provided that they did not have a significant impact, or there was over-riding public interest.

Q. How will you affect the Red Throated Diver?
The main anticipated effect on the Red Throated Diver will be that they will avoid the wind farm once built. This would displace the birds from a part of their feeding grounds. However, the species use a large area and the wind farm only occupies around 10% of the areas that they frequent. Over time we expect the birds to become accustomed to the wind farm and re-establish some use of the area. Even if that is not the case it is possible that there are sufficient food-stocks in the remaining area to avoid any significant impacts on the species.

EN, RSPB, and KWT have all given their approval.
In fairness this will produce some serious amounts of electricity for a change-and it is Off-shore.
Hope they are right about the Divers.

Colin

 

[Mickymouse]

EN, RSPB, and KWT have all given their approval.
In fairness this will produce some serious amounts of electricity for a change-and it is Off-shore.
Hope they are right about the Divers.

Colin

Can't argue with that especially as I have advocated putting them out at sea as the only place for them but I did mean a long way out and to be honest the existing ones in the right light do look rather impressive, I just don't want to see them in every direction I look, selfish of me but there you are.

Mick

 

[Jane Turner]

EN, RSPB, and KWT have all given their approval.
In fairness this will produce some serious amounts of electricity for a change-and it is Off-shore.
Hope they are right about the Divers.

Colin

There is no evidence that wintering divers, cormorants or Scoter have been affected with the Hoyle windfarm - in fact the latter two appear to be increasing.

Offshore is surely the way forawrds (combined with very local).

 

[Tyke]

Offshore is surely the way forwards .

Yes I agree-subject to continued vigilance on avian effects.
It certainly looks as though the London Array developers have been upfront on the Divers issue.
The onshore works are going to be horrendous-feel sorry for the folks there.

Colin

 

[Collster]

Yes I agree-subject to continued vigilance on avian effects.
It certainly looks as though the London Array developers have been upfront on the Divers issue.
The onshore works are going to be horrendous-feel sorry for the folks there.

Colin[/QUOTE As you say at least the developers have been open with their info in this instance. Here in deepest darkest Wales we are not that lucky, we end up with a windfarm built well within the breeding range of some very rare breeding birds. Thats bad enough, but now even though they know these birds are present there are another three farms in the pipeline. Some seriously switched on people should be surveying this area , but all we get is someone who has little experience subing it out to someone with no experience. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad

 

[Jane Turner]

Yes I agree-subject to continued vigilance on avian effects.
It certainly looks as though the London Array developers have been upfront on the Divers issue.
The onshore works are going to be horrendous-feel sorry for the folks there.

Colin

Beyond the slightly spooky sound of pile driving at 3am (like something out of Lord of the Rings) We seem to be getting away with it here.

 

[abagguley]

There is no evidence that wintering divers, cormorants or Scoter have been affected with the Hoyle windfarm

Hi Jane - have you ever seen any published data (positive or negative) about the farm at Hoyle - this is the one I've been getting my leccy from for the last few years*, but I couldn't find any studies pointing one way or the other on the net.

*well theoretically it comes from there, but obviously they don't shepherd each electron individually from North Hoyle to my house.

Adrian

 

[Tyke]

Beyond the slightly spooky sound of pile driving at 3am (like something out of Lord of the Rings) We seem to be getting away with it here.

mmmm-N Hoyle of course bears no resemblance to the London Array which has ten times as many turbines at sea, and much bigger onshore infrastucture in new substations etc. The cables are coming through a KWT reserve on the Swale.

We have only just started on these mega offshore installations.
In Liverpool Bay. North Hoyle's 30 turbines will be joined by 700 new ones if the following are approved :- Shell Flat/Gwynt y mor/West Duddon/Ormonde/Walney.

In the Thames The London Array's 300 turbines will be supplemented by another 150 or so if Greater Gabbard is approved.

It really is important that the marine avian risks are properly assessed.
It seems from this article that the extent of the Scoter & Diver populations in Liverpool Bay & The Thames mouth area were not in fact known until the wind farm surveys were done:-

http://www.rpsplc.co.uk/news.asp?N=365&secid=news&siteid=&SessionID=

The article implies that RSPB are still sounding a distinct note of caution.

I think they are right to do so-the words Smola & White Tailed Eagle come to mind.

Colin

 

[nirofo]

By the time the RSPB and the rest of the conservancy bodies get their act together, (if ever) it will be too late by a mile!!

It's probably too late already?

nirofo.

 

[Collster]

Yes, there does seem to be a lack of a co-ordinated strategy, yet these plans in the pipeline are already been given the go ahead in areas that contain birds that these various bodies should be concerned about. It will be too late once they are built

 

[Tyke]

Yes I agree-subject to continued vigilance on avian effects.
It certainly looks as though the London Array developers have been upfront on the Divers issue.
The onshore works are going to be horrendous-feel sorry for the folks there.

Colin[/QUOTE As you say at least the developers have been open with their info in this instance. Here in deepest darkest Wales we are not that lucky, we end up with a windfarm built well within the breeding range of some very rare breeding birds. Thats bad enough, but now even though they know these birds are present there are another three farms in the pipeline. Some seriously switched on people should be surveying this area , but all we get is someone who has little experience subing it out to someone with no experience. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad

I don't know how they get away with it VB.
There certainly seems to be a big effort to understate environmental risk.How could it be otherwise though when the Developer commisions the EIA?
What gets to me is the presumption of need for wind farms of any size in any location.
Add to this the policy of reviewing each application individually rather than cumulatively in an area, plus the Government's power to decide on 50MW ( capacity) and above , and you have the most anti-democratic planning system since Saddam drained the Iraq Marshes.

Colin

 

[delia todd]

hey guys... sorry but how can set a picture in my profile?

Hi Phantom4 I see this is your first post so may I welcome you on behalf of all the staff and moderators at Bird Forum.

I'll PM you with some help on your avatar, so that we don't hi-jack this thread

D

 

[Reay_Bonxie]

We have only just started on these mega offshore installations.
In Liverpool Bay. North Hoyle's 30 turbines will be joined by 700 new ones if the following are approved :......Walney.
Colin

That is my neck of the woods, it is already under construction.

 

[Tyke]

That is my neck of the woods, it is already under construction.

The one just completed is 30 turbines or so I think.
The one I refer to was only submitted in March this year-its 450MW which must be min. 130 to 150 turbines:-

http://www.bwea.com/ukwed/planning.asp

Maybe its an extension to the one you refer to?

Colin

 

[Collster]

Heres a photo of the pile of crap that was put on top of our local mountain years ago. Never worked, if you look at it closely there was no way it could work. This crap is still here years later. Can anyone honestly expect them to remove these newer much larger windfarms once their time is up

 

[Jane Turner]

Hi Jane - have you ever seen any published data (positive or negative) about the farm at Hoyle - this is the one I've been getting my leccy from for the last few years*, but I couldn't find any studies pointing one way or the other on the net.

*well theoretically it comes from there, but obviously they don't shepherd each electron individually from North Hoyle to my house.

Adrian

I know some people who are doing the ongoing surveys and there is no detrimental effect so far. I believe they undertake to replace the energy you take from non-renewable sources, with energy from renewables. Not sure how you could check that they weren't cheating though.

 

[bkrownd]

There are plenty of wind projects in the works in Hawai'i. Most aren't very controversial. People did succeed in derailing a geothermal project that was previously planned near here. Meanwhile the fossil fuel plants hum happily along...

 

[Tyke]

There are plenty of wind projects in the works in Hawai'i. Most aren't very controversial. People did succeed in derailing a geothermal project that was previously planned near here. Meanwhile the fossil fuel plants hum happily along...

mmmm-not entirely without controversy it would seem:-


http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?32a06945-d4eb-487f-950c-8b2a53e3251e

http://www.windaction.org/opinions/1035

It certainly seems like the massive increase in the human population and it's insatiable demand for electricity-Big screen TV , air conditioning, electric clothes dryers (!!!)- is causing an energy problem :-

http://www.windaction.org/news/3624
http://starbulletin.com/2006/09/16/editorial/editorial01.html

Considering Hawaii's infamous record as the endangered species capital of the world , :-

http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/endangered/extinct.html

http://www.maui.net/~jstark/whatgone.html

http://www.nature.org/wherewework/northamerica/states/hawaii/science/art2413.html


...it is to be hoped that it's human population might pause a while before inflicting another load of failed industrial wind farm junk on it's fragile habitats:-

http://www.windaction.org/pictures/4144
http://www.windaction.org/pictures/4145
http://www.windaction.org/pictures/4146
http://www.windaction.org/pictures/5125


Maybe Hawaii's politicians should think about their current wind energy strategy & its potential effects on Hawaii's battered ecosystems.To power Oahu by wind turbines would require 3000 of it's 4000 sq mile surface area to be covered in them.They may conclude that the most ecologicaly sound answer to the ever increasing demand for electricity on Hawaii is a nuclear power plant :-

http://www.windaction.org/opinions/1396

Alternatively they could consider controlling population growth on Hawaii and/or insisting that clothes are dried on washing lines!!

Colin

 

[CornishExile]

Micro windfarms proposal: >link to Windcrofting<

ce

 

[bkrownd]

mmmm-not entirely without controversy it would seem:-

Everything is controversial with some group - especially here. Small wind farms have
been quietly established for a while here, though. Mostly I was commenting on the
local controversy-magnet being geothermal. They even tried pumping cold seawater up from the ocean floor, and that was controversial.

Considering Hawaii's infamous record as the endangered species capital of the world , :-
...it is to be hoped that it's human population might pause a while before inflicting another load of failed industrial wind farm junk on it's fragile habitats:-

They're usually planted in an area that's already wasteland - hopefully that'll remain the case.

Alternatively they could consider controlling population growth on Hawaii and/or insisting that clothes are dried on washing lines!!

There's a couple of non-starters for ya...