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Wings Over Winecountry, Colleen's place (1 Viewer)

solitaryVSong

Well-known member
oh sigh Phil what a guy!;)

Jomo who is that, does it have to do with vaccination? if so over half the people getting this have been vaccinated, which they now say is not lifetime protection, and you need boosters, since I got it I'm not going to worry about a shot now...they also say the bug has mutated to adapt to the vaccine so now there is a stronger version of it as well....

My doctor was pushing me to get a Pertussis booster vaccination a couple of years ago but I never did. Now I may need to rethink it.

As usual I'm going to leave comments on reflections to others. I just improvise and hope they work.
 

colleenc

Well-known member
Ken, its pretty bad stuff, it actually attacks a layer of cells in the airsacs and to recover you have to wait until the body grow a new layer, so even after the worst is over you have to be careful for about 6 weeks...

if you have a good immune system you won't get it mostly, as an adult.
 

solitaryVSong

Well-known member
Ken, its pretty bad stuff, it actually attacks a layer of cells in the airsacs and to recover you have to wait until the body grow a new layer, so even after the worst is over you have to be careful for about 6 weeks...

if you have a good immune system you won't get it mostly, as an adult.

Boy, that is bad! My wife is just getting over 10 weeks of a combination of viral and bacterial pneumonia so I've seen first hand just how bad some lung problems can be. Nasty!!
 

timwootton

Well-known member
thanks Tim, when you come back could you weigh in on the reflections where I'm kinda stuck sure would appreciate it...they were lighter than the ducks but for the rest I'm flummoxed

I think you've got these working perfectly value-wise. It gives the impression of seeing through the partially opaque water particles of fog - the reflections wouldn't be shouting out, I don't think - and ...
With regard to reflections in fog I am not sure I can offer you a great deal, though to my mind fog means still conditions and barely a ripple, as you have depicted......
. . . this is a good suggestion; the stillness associated with this kind of weather can evoke a atrong sense of stillness and romantic desolation.
That's what I think, anyway.
Like most of these technical aspects, whatever the physics underlying, as long as the effect is pleasing and balances withm your overall vision, then that's all that really matters, no?

Generally, reflections are the same length as the bird is high. Although, there are some situations (very light colors) where the reflection can be longer than the object. Normally, I measure (roughly) the height of the bird and then "fold" that length down (hinged at the feet) and use that distance for the reflection.. If your reference material show long reflections--forget I ever said anything!!
Sid
In mirror-like conditions this is spot on - however whenever there's a ripple on the surface, you get what Ed describes:
but it may be because you are seeing here multiple reflections stacking vertically, so it is the same hind neck profile repeating

on Sid's point, I think you can get a veeeeeery long reflection if your eye level is low relative to the birds waterline

. . . the reflected image is replicating on each ripple surface and only gradually does the shape of the reflection reveal itself. What you get on a rippled surface is one plane of the ripple is at an angle to reflect the object(s) on/in/near the water surface and other planes of the ripple will be reflecting sky. You get a slice of ripple and a slice of sky, to put it very bluntly (of course the ripple has a complex surface and contains much variety of reflections). But if you were to take a phots such as the one of yours with stacked ripples, and physically slice out each piece of the sky ripples then join the 'positive reflections' together - you would get something approximating to the mirror reflection - although distortion is bound to occur.

Here are four of my photos of female eiders - in the first two you can see how the slices of ripple are reflecting objects on the water surface and/or in the direct view and then there are slices of sky intervening. The second shows a nice way of depicting a gentle ripple, with just the toppermost bit of the reflection being sliced away and floating on the water. The last two show why I don't think it's a good idea to worry too much about what your reference says - I could never paint a reflection like the Halloween mask in pic three and one would need to reinterpret the reflection in pic four because ducks wth four eyes aren't the norm (but this image does show the 'stacking' effect Ed refers to.
 

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colleenc

Well-known member
THANK YOU SO MUCH TIM this really helps me understand what is happening and why which will help ever so much more than a how to

OMG ripples and reflections are so complex...in the future I'll have to do some sketches of that as it happens so I don't have to rely on just a photo....I've been just looking at the birds to draw, but they are so often in this way, that I need to study it more...so I can suggest it without overdoing it.
 

solitaryVSong

Well-known member
How's that for an answer Colleen?! Beautiful and full explanation and illustration Tim. I have a photo of some Pied-billed Grebes that I took last year that reminds me of photo #1. But I could never get myself to paint it. I'm always afraid it will look absolutely unbelievable. I'm with Tim in saying it may not be a good idea to worry too much about what your reference says though in my case it's just my gut reaction, not the thoughtful analysis that Tim has just given.

All in all I think that your work is developing as its own believable world as is and there's probably no need to get too involved in making sure that it matches your references. They're just there to help you not to inhibit you.
 

colleenc

Well-known member
well I don't have a ref really since this is a composite....but I was stuck in not understanding the basics so I could proceed some direction. Now with the post of Tim and his collecting the others comments together I finally get it, and I think I can get it done now.
 

ed keeble

Well-known member
How's that for an answer Colleen?! Beautiful and full explanation and illustration Tim. I have a photo of some Pied-billed Grebes that I took last year that reminds me of photo #1. But I could never get myself to paint it. I'm always afraid it will look absolutely unbelievable.

there's not many who tackle the weirdy effects shown in Tim's photos: there seems to be a bit of an artistic convention even in exciting birdy pics to go for "straight" reflections without warps and repeats

but there a really nice reflection selection in Grebes of the World full of Chris Rose pics: he manages to take on the challenge and come out with utterly believable results

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/1872842038.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

and there's that Mathios of course..
 

barry robson

Well-known member
Scaup

Hi Collen

Like I said in my thread re the Geltsdale reserve exhibition, I'm very new to this forum and I've spent about 40 minutes going through your work, and for what it's worth, I think the scaup look pretty good as they are. The overall feel and mood of the picture is right - this is how you are likely to see these birds in these conditions. As for the reflections they look fine to me. I did look at one of your posts re Tadao Sato 'Merge into the reeds' and his reflections look very short. I also HATE the picture - it's technically brilliant but has absolutely no soul whatsoever - now your scaup are full of mood - you're right there in there with them. I reckon if it looks and feels right, then it is right and in my opinion, it's right…

thanks for all the posts

B
 

colleenc

Well-known member
I know some here may be tired of my whining over this but I can tell you it could be better, and I'm working on it...I think the artist must stay true to the vision within of the intangible thing that is the reason to make a painting of something, and I know its not there yet....

Can't believe you went all the way through that thread, :eek!: but the guys did put some good stuff in there
 

colleenc

Well-known member
Hooray! with Tim's explanation, and figuring out that the yellow was off, it got green somehow, so I actually overpainted with an orange and changed the greys to a different mix, increased the contrast, fixed a few ripples.....and now at last it comes alive...also switched the white to a flake which got rid of the chalkiness...NOW I'm happy....it looks better in RL as the colors are so subtle...it really says what it was like that day.
 

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phil baber

artist for birds
Europe
Oh my!

Light, reflection and Lesser Scaups!

I am soberly impressed and dutifully delighted by this Colleen.

And you have retained the naturalisticness (?) of your subjects. Just the way I like it. Not overworked. So fantastic!

Wish I could see this on my wall everyday, and the changing light altering its delicate moods...

...But, I probably couldn't afford it!
 

phil baber

artist for birds
Europe
Oh Crikey!

Shameful mis-ID! Must've missed that bit!

But have only seen one LS in UK. Thought that these were wide-billed, "blodge-nailed", stocky jobs, and the beer don't help much! Shoulda referred back to my sketchlings!:-C
 

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colleenc

Well-known member
now with your sketches I'm sure, there was not a peak there , nice and round.
well even the experts at BF say it's hard to tell, we decided greater because the heads were not as peaked as a lesser.,....
 

solitaryVSong

Well-known member
NOW I'm happy....it looks better in RL as the colors are so subtle...it really says what it was like that day.

No, no, no! Don't tell me that now there's an acronym for Real Life!!:smoke::smoke::smoke:

The painting looks great Colleen. I'm glad that you were able to work through to something that you're happy with. As you say that's the reason for doing the painting in the first place!
 

colleenc

Well-known member
yes ken welcome to twitterworld....:-O

Thanks to you for the explanation Tim I had a way forward.

on another subject, I just found this, and realized since my cat died in march I've done mostly grey foggy paintings....:-O
How Getting the Blues Makes Everything Gray
Researchers at the University of Freiburg, Germany, have found that individuals who suffer from depression have a lower capability to see black and white contrast, a similar effect to turning down the contrast on your TV or computer monitor. According to The Independent, the findings could even determine a person's level of depression, and might explain artists' use of dark hues to depict depression.

Monet, van Gogh and Pollock were cited as artists whose color choice was indicative of personal tumultuous times. How about you—does your palette tend to reflect your mood?
 
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