Wyver Lane Nature Reserve (DWT) (1 Viewer)

[hampers]

All this is very sad to hear. Health issues have limited my visits (well actually stopped) to reserves for the last 6 months. Missed winter and spring at Wyver sadly. From all the reports perhaps I've not missed much. I, for one, am certainly thinking about my membership going forward if the will not manage the reserves properly. Destroying habitat by grazing is not effective land management, it should all be done on a rotational basis and take account of rare species, irrespective of being flora or fauna. Unbelievable situation. Perhaps everyone who doesn't renew should write to them, maybe they would act if losing members as they'd have no money to pay staff!!!

Phil

 

[Papa 10]

Unbelievable situation. Perhaps everyone who doesn't renew should write to them, maybe they would act if losing members as they'd have no money to pay staff!!!

Phil

This is the whole point Phil, they are not interested in the membership or flora & fauna, the objective being to aquire the maximum income by way of grants in addition to the commercial farming business.
Check Woodside Farm on their site and although no one is against this per se the wildlife must be the priority. Grants are obtained by way of grazing as opposed to 'motorised' control, but the argument is why is it neceesary in sensitive areas? There are 3 'pond dipping' platforms/areas within 100 yards are these necessary? but the grants are there. If like myself there are health issues you have a 400 metre walk to even access Woodside (NR) Farm whilst staff have the luxury of huge SUV's (eco friendly?) to ride round in. They can also install fancy metal 'sculptures' but not even a plank on which to rest weary bones. I'm not saying it requires top of the range seats (they would be vandalised anyway) just a length of mature tree trunk (of which many have been felled in the area) with the top 'flattened' by chainshaw--- effective and vandalproof. Problem is what do we 'plebs' know we don't have degrees and a cumlative hundreds of years experience counts for nothing.

 

[hampers]

This is the whole point Phil, they are not interested in the membership or flora & fauna, the objective being to aquire the maximum income by way of grants in addition to the commercial farming business.
Check Woodside Farm on their site and although no one is against this per se the wildlife must be the priority. Grants are obtained by way of grazing as opposed to 'motorised' control, but the argument is why is it neceesary in sensitive areas? There are 3 'pond dipping' platforms/areas within 100 yards are these necessary? but the grants are there. If like myself there are health issues you have a 400 metre walk to even access Woodside (NR) Farm whilst staff have the luxury of huge SUV's (eco friendly?) to ride round in. They can also install fancy metal 'sculptures' but not even a plank on which to rest weary bones. I'm not saying it requires top of the range seats (they would be vandalised anyway) just a length of mature tree trunk (of which many have been felled in the area) with the top 'flattened' by chainshaw--- effective and vandalproof. Problem is what do we 'plebs' know we don't have degrees and a cumlative hundreds of years experience counts for nothing.

No like buttons on BF!

Some grazing to maintain pastures and habitation is necessary but not wholesale blanketing the area and ignoring everything around. I would have thought they employed people who studied within this field. My knowledge is just practical from working on a reserve for some years. Our grazing was very carefully managed and controlled.
I haven't been to the reserve you mention but like you I could not walk 400mts at the moment, ignoring members needs is counter productive in the long run.

Phil

 

[Crake Dude]

Yep, that's spot on about actually getting to view some of their reserves.

....and don't get me started about water level management at WillGP and Wyver Lane reserves, but at least there is an actual sluice at Wyver, the use of which could be designated to a reliable and regular visitor to the site. At WillGP I was actually told in a chat a few years ago with someone from DWT reserve management that it was preferred to have the water level high there constantly to encourage the phragmites spread, and an intention was to hopefully make the whole southern end water expanse into a phragmites bed, hence the relative shallowness of the water there....it's bonkers. A sluice is definitely needed at WillGP, and sharpish.....and a new reserves manager.

Steve

 

[DaveN]

Steve, Roland, Dan, Phil etc you all make some very good points and thanks for contributing. If only the powers that be at the DWT could read these posts. Although it probably wouldn't make any difference.

It was after a recent visit to Woodside that a lot of my thoughts and views towards the DWT were emphasised. Woodside is a huge reserve, the largest outside of the peak national park I believe. But I was struck by the amount of volunteers that were on site carrying out all sorts of jobs. And it was obvious that big bucks had been spent on new this and that. All I've been asking for is for the tree next to the hide to be cut back and for the viewing mound to be sorted. I've been asking for a couple of years now. A job that would take a couple of volunteers just a morning to sort out. I mean Wyver is about a mile from where they are based for christ sake. They spent a lot of time in building the mound but it's just being left to rot. There wasn't a lot of thought gone into the construction of it. What did they think was going to happen by planting hawthorn and god knows what else in front of it.

I get the impression that the DWT don't really care about the majority of their reserves and Wyver falls into that category. The recent introduction of cattle onto the reserve has destroyed much vegetation around the pool edges and what little reeds we had will take some time to get back to normal.

I think Dan mentioned that it looks like a work party has been down there. I think there has but what they've actually done I don't know. They normally strim the island but that hasn't been done and is too overgrown.

A couple of years ago they put a new tern raft on the main pool. The old one was dragged to the near side of the pool and is still there today. The new raft is now used by BH Gulls (3 pairs this year) which is about par for the course at most reserves. But I asked several times if the old one could be re-floated as it would be far better in the middle of the pool than doing nothing at the side. This like many things has fallen on deaf ears.

I used to really like my visits to Wyver but like I said in a previous post I am visiting far less frequently now. Today I had a quick look down there and was only there for about 20 minutes. God knows how me and Chris are going to get on on Thursday on our summer alldayer.

 

[John Eaton]

I agree with most of what as been said about DWT, but just to pick up Steve on a couple of points about WGP. The sheep and ponies are at the west side of the reserve (not south) on the old fly pit, which was once great in winter for Water Pipits and Jack Snipe. It's main attraction now seems to be for Stock Doves. The reedbeds have now been left to their own devices and are being invaded by Willow, Birch and Alder, so rapidly becoming a woodland with a reedbed fringe. The reedbeds have not been managed for several years. Viewing from the platforms is becoming very difficult, particularly now in later summer and a few of us have had to use secateurs to trim back vegitation particularly in front of P1. Reserve management at WGP say different things to different people about water levels and forward plans. In the main the reserve management appears to just say what they think people want to hear just to keep them quiet, they certainly do not take any heed of the opinions of the local members when they make valid comments.

 

[Crake Dude]

Sorry, John, yes the former 'flyash' pit is on the bottom west corner....I canna afford a compass like thee can. Also on there, before the 'farm' arrived, were usually nice flocks of finches too on the teasels in winter, including the scarce Lesser Teasel which is now confined(well it used to be, perhaps munched now) to the straight 'drainage ditch'(drains what?) edge.

Yep, I don't know what to believe whatever I'm told about a sluice being a no-no by the EAgency, yet the working GP are allowed to pump excess water into the stream which runs through the reserve, occasionally creating a mini tsunami downstream, and which sometimes backs up and enters the main reserve 'pond' via a large pipe near the old workings, thus raising the water level sometimes, even during the breeding season so affecting nesting water-edge birds. Nowt's done about it though. It's a shambles....let me manage the place instead!

Another DW(RB)T wetland reserve which is farcical is Erewash Meadows near Langley Mill. It's almost unviewable, most of it is too far away be seen properly from the railway path, the railway-sleeper stockade is a total joke, just looking over munched fields and stampeding cattle. The other evening, to view the middle marsh I had to stand on the top rung of a stile whilst balancing my tripod&scope on a swaying, fully-cattle-slobbered barbed wire fence.

Steve

 

[upstarts1979]

Yep, that's spot on about actually getting to view some of their reserves.

....and don't get me started about water level management at WillGP and Wyver Lane reserves, but at least there is an actual sluice at Wyver, the use of which could be designated to a reliable and regular visitor to the site. At WillGP I was actually told in a chat a few years ago with someone from DWT reserve management that it was preferred to have the water level high there constantly to encourage the phragmites spread, and an intention was to hopefully make the whole southern end water expanse into a phragmites bed, hence the relative shallowness of the water there....it's bonkers. A sluice is definitely needed at WillGP, and sharpish.....and a new reserves manager.

Steve

I completely empathise with all your views and your frustration is tangible. I had the same experience at my local wetland in Worcestershire (owned by the Worcestershire WT) - namely Upton Warren.
I was always criticizing the lack of care and thought for wetland birds and the habitat was deteriorating rapidly, in fact the site was being neglected in my opinion. In the early days me and a few birders resorted to guerilla tactics, ie chopping trees down in the middle of reed beds and altering the water levels by digging channels, building a dam and sluice, so we could drop the water levels. In time we met the Trust and formed a management team amongst the local birders. This was 30 years ago and we had to really push the birding aspect of the site and its true potential. It was a hard slog full of frustration and unnecessary bureaucracy, although to be fair these Trust are constrained by planning laws that are total bull s***.
However the one thing they all seem to have in common is the lack of foresight as to what could be achieved. There are very few birders in these county Trusts, so they don't see the same picture as we do. But if you learn about the habitat yourself and start putting plans to them that you can back up with facts , then you can get your point across and change things. The wheel does not turn quickly in the conservation industry, but be patience and persevere, but be prepared to get your hands dirty and muck in together with like minded people. At Upton Warren the birders manage and run the reserve ( under the auspices of the WWT. We have achieved a lot in those years and now have avocets breeding and other unusual species for an inland site, its not always smooth running , but ultimately we have achieved goals that would have been but a pipe dream 30 years ago.
Don't give up, formulate a plan and approach the DWT, this is what I did 30+ years ago. Finally forcing them to listen and changing their attitude towards wetlands and today relations with the WWT are pretty good.
BEST of LUCK Lads
B John

 

[Papa 10]

I completely empathise with all your views and your frustration is tangible. I had the same experience at my local wetland in Worcestershire (owned by the Worcestershire WT) - namely Upton Warren.
I was always criticizing the lack of care and thought for wetland birds and the habitat was deteriorating rapidly, in fact the site was being neglected in my opinion. In the early days me and a few birders resorted to guerilla tactics, ie chopping trees down in the middle of reed beds and altering the water levels by digging channels, building a dam and sluice, so we could drop the water levels. In time we met the Trust and formed a management team amongst the local birders. This was 30 years ago and we had to really push the birding aspect of the site and its true potential. It was a hard slog full of frustration and unnecessary bureaucracy, although to be fair these Trust are constrained by planning laws that are total bull s***.
However the one thing they all seem to have in common is the lack of foresight as to what could be achieved. There are very few birders in these county Trusts, so they don't see the same picture as we do. But if you learn about the habitat yourself and start putting plans to them that you can back up with facts , then you can get your point across and change things. The wheel does not turn quickly in the conservation industry, but be patience and persevere, but be prepared to get your hands dirty and muck in together with like minded people. At Upton Warren the birders manage and run the reserve ( under the auspices of the WWT. We have achieved a lot in those years and now have avocets breeding and other unusual species for an inland site, its not always smooth running , but ultimately we have achieved goals that would have been but a pipe dream 30 years ago.
Don't give up, formulate a plan and approach the DWT, this is what I did 30+ years ago. Finally forcing them to listen and changing their attitude towards wetlands and today relations with the WWT are pretty good.
BEST of LUCK Lads
B John

So things have changed a bit since my last visit Cuddy (26 August 1989---filthy twitchers)

Seriously John thank you for your input, I follow the Upton thread with great interest and envy what has been achieved there. To have WWT and birders 'working' together for a common goal is an example to all in the UK not just the Midlands. Problem today is if trees are lopped or ditches dug unofficially the law would be knocking at the door to arrest you for criminal damage due to the narrow-minded petiness. You can take great pride in Upton and who could have envisaged a 'flagship' bird would have been successfully breeding there. What particularly pleases me is the contribution of the 'young guns' e.g. Kingfisher Kid, Midlands Birder etc; which is really refreshing. Keep up the good work and I'll try and make a return visit when the 'big one' lands, but only if I can have some cake Thanks again

 

[Phil Andrews]

I think the key to Upton is that the birders have taken the initative in terms of input into the reserve, relying on the Trust only for the expensive, heavy-duty input such as hides, fox-proof fencing, large deliveries of shingle etc. In an average year we have approx 60 individuals contributing to work parties throughout the year and that sense of ownership and loyalty amongst the birders who visit the reserve and input into its management drives us forward. The tide is slowly turning and the provision of detailed statistical analysis of species' occurrence / breeding, photos over a period of time showing habitat degradation, reasoned scientific argument, best practice adopted by other conservation bodies etc when all put together and articulated make a very compelling argument. I would strongly encourage local reserves to look at the manpower and skills sets that their regular watchers can harness and take the lead (with the appropriate approvals) in the management of the spaces we are all so passionate about.

 

[Papa 10]

I think the key to Upton is that the birders have taken the initative in terms of input into the reserve, relying on the Trust only for the expensive, heavy-duty input such as hides, fox-proof fencing, large deliveries of shingle etc. In an average year we have approx 60 individuals contributing to work parties throughout the year and that sense of ownership and loyalty amongst the birders who visit the reserve and input into its management drives us forward. The tide is slowly turning and the provision of detailed statistical analysis of species' occurrence / breeding, photos over a period of time showing habitat degradation, reasoned scientific argument, best practice adopted by other conservation bodies etc when all put together and articulated make a very compelling argument. I would strongly encourage local reserves to look at the manpower and skills sets that their regular watchers can harness and take the lead (with the appropriate approvals) in the management of the spaces we are all so passionate about.

The 'team' is the reason for my envy, all working together for a common cause and getting pleasure and satisfaction from it but we are not fortunate enough to have a 'Stats' Andrews, a vital cog in the Upton Wheel.
I make fairly comprehensive notes (computerised) but wouldn't have a clue how to turn them into 'stats' and I'm far too 'long in the tooth' to learn (didn't even have calculators when I was at school just slide rules & log books). Also cannot use a spade so all I'd be good for is sitting in the rocking chair smoking a pipe, as I even struggle to use a 'scope nowadays--Aah, but I still manage to find a few decent bits & bobs locally without visiting the 'unhospitable' reserves. Infuriating thing is if say Spotted Crake was breeding on one of the reserves it would either get the nest trampled by stock or not get 'picked up' because of the great viewing distance as pointed out by Crake Dude above (think it's now 5 he has found in the County, which is in itself incredible)

 

[hampers]

From the post I despair. I guess my prime time for visits to Wyver is autumn/winter when vegetation has died down. Hopefully will be able to start going agin this coming 'season' if health improves.
Reading the posts maybe someone from DWT is on the forum and could take the feedback on board, makes depressing reading. It looks like the habitat management views of DWT do not take into account all the species involved. The RSPB produce comprehensive 5 year reserve management plans detailing in full the approach to be adopted for habitat management, well they did in my day! These also included grazing plans, which are crucial in some habitats for all/many species of flora and fauna. Has anyone asked DWT if they have similar and if so are they in the public domain?
My reading of this thread is that there are members who fiercely support their local reserve/patch and DWT should listen to these people. DaveN records would be most valuable and many organisation would give their eye teeth to have such comprehensive coverage, it now looks like Dave is visiting less frequently - sadly I enjoyed his regular updates immensely.
My visits are limited by distance, its 100 mile round trip to Wyver for me.

What a superb debate this has been from the meaningful and to the point input, Shows how could this forum can be for people to express very valuable and informative views on a serious topic without digression and becoming personal.

I shall think hard about renewing my membership, at the moment it is definitely a no if anyone from DWT is reading this thread, I am but 1 but they should take account.

Cheers

Phil

 

[Blitherinamateur]

I defer to virtually every contributor to this site on matters ornithological but when it comes to stirring up a bit of a rumpus I have a certain amount of experience that might be useful. It is doubtful whether the people who dictate policy at the DWT are regular readers of this forum but I wonder if they would be able to maintain such a lofty distance from your concerns if their failings were made known in the local media; eg a critical story in the Belper News, the Derby Tel and Radio Derby. Accusing an organisation ostensibly committed to the interests of wildlife of compromising the diversity of the Wyver Lane reserve and ignoring expressions of concern would make good copy if properly presented. After a working lifetime as a journalist, columnist and, more recently, publicity adviser, I still have some useful contacts in the media and would be happy to work up a story addressing this issue and attempt to place it if enough people felt it would be worthwhile.

 

[upstarts1979]

I defer to virtually every contributor to this site on matters ornithological but when it comes to stirring up a bit of a rumpus I have a certain amount of experience that might be useful. It is doubtful whether the people who dictate policy at the DWT are regular readers of this forum but I wonder if they would be able to maintain such a lofty distance from your concerns if their failings were made known in the local media; eg a critical story in the Belper News, the Derby Tel and Radio Derby. Accusing an organisation ostensibly committed to the interests of wildlife of compromising the diversity of the Wyver Lane reserve and ignoring expressions of concern would make good copy if properly presented. After a working lifetime as a journalist, columnist and, more recently, publicity adviser, I still have some useful contacts in the media and would be happy to work up a story addressing this issue and attempt to place it if enough people felt it would be worthwhile.

This is what more or less happened at Upton Warren, we were angry. But you have to have a plan for the DWT to listen to. I know Dave N cares passionately about the site ( as I did/do for UW). But you have to highlight their (DWT) failings and what could/should be done and ultimately what can be achieved. I have never been to Wyvern, but I have seen many photos and I can see a lot of potential for improvement. These Trusts tend to sit on what they've got and only look at maintaining the 'status quo'. The creativity usually comes from people who regularly visit the site, ie birders (you have to remember that most Trust employees are NOT birders, so why would they visit these places. Dave knows more than others about the site and also seems to be tuned in with those visiting the place. Maybe a group of you could put ideas on paper and approach the DWT. In my day we had no way of highlighting problems, other than moaning in the hides to each other. So a discussion of how to improve things could start on here, it isn't worth getting into a blame game against the DWT, they probably don't have the knowledge or understanding of the place, as they probably only ever visit twice a year. On grazing, we have only just started this at the Flashes section of UW and it has caused some problems, but overall is of benefit. Time is the main factor and short term grazing doesn't always appear to be doing any good. Don't give up lads, Phil Andrews will testify to our frustration at times. But generally (albeit slowly) things are heading in the right way, with problems that take time to remedy.
B John (cuddy)

 

[Daniel Martin]

Thanks everyone for input, especially since my highlighting the current state of the place. I have been in touch with a friend at DWT to find the best person to email. I will pick the salient points out of this conversation and send it to them. They suggested copying in the Chief Exec who's email I also have. It wont be a "complaint" style more a case of highlighting whats been said/suggested for their benefit, and ultimately ours.
I have been visiting the reserve since 1986, and more frequently in the last 20 years since moving close by. I think on the face of it something needs to be said and so I do think its a good place to start. You are right John there are a small but consistent group of people who care very much for the place and would love to see it restored to former glories.
I will let you know what the reaction is and if copying any text above will take names etc out.
Hope thats ok?

 

[upstarts1979]

So things have changed a bit since my last visit Cuddy (26 August 1989---filthy twitchers)

Seriously John thank you for your input, I follow the Upton thread with great interest and envy what has been achieved there. To have WWT and birders 'working' together for a common goal is an example to all in the UK not just the Midlands. Problem today is if trees are lopped or ditches dug unofficially the law would be knocking at the door to arrest you for criminal damage due to the narrow-minded petiness. You can take great pride in Upton and who could have envisaged a 'flagship' bird would have been successfully breeding there. What particularly pleases me is the contribution of the 'young guns' e.g. Kingfisher Kid, Midlands Birder etc; which is really refreshing. Keep up the good work and I'll try and make a return visit when the 'big one' lands, but only if I can have some cake Thanks again

If we get another 'biggy' there will be plenty of cake mate. Trying to work out what was there in 1989 ....Phil A will come to my rescue:t:. Also trying to work out the 'Derby boys' of my day......Dipper, Louie, Simon S, Mark B, minds going mate. cuddy. don't keep me in suspense8-P

 

[Papa 10]

If we get another 'biggy' there will be plenty of cake mate. Trying to work out what was there in 1989 ....Phil A will come to my rescue:t:. Also trying to work out the 'Derby boys' of my day......Dipper, Louie, Simon S, Mark B, minds going mate. cuddy. don't keep me in suspense8-P

Blue-winged Teal John, will PM you as regards the 'old days'

 

[Stone Snapper]

Makes a change to read a positive thread and I dont mind being called a young gun8-P maybe invite the DWT down our way see if it can help matters all the best a 43 year old young gun :t:

 

[hampers]

Makes a change to read a positive thread and I dont mind being called a young gun8-P maybe invite the DWT down our way see if it can help matters all the best a 43 year old young gun :t:

Totally agree, great to see a positive and meaningful discussion.

Regards

Phil

 

[DaveN]

Just to get away from the politics for a moment, Chris and me did the all dayer down Wyver on Thursday. We started at 05.00hrs and finished at 15.00hrs. Before anybody says that's not all day. We first did the all dayer in winter a few years back and was on site from dawn till dusk. A time of around 10 hours. So we decided to do it in all seasons and kept it at 10 hours.

Anyway, we managed 48 species which is about average for Wyver. Highlights on the pool were 10 Goosander in the roost, 3 Shoveler, 19 Teal, 149 Mallards and 9 Gadwall.

For a couple of weeks now in my shorter visits I've heard young Sparrowhawks calling from some nearby woods. Well on Thursday morning the whole family were out terrorising everything that dared get in their way. There was at least 5 birds flying around but maybe 6.

Around 07.30hrs a Little Egret dropped in behind the island. It only stayed for about 2 minutes before flying south. This is the first record this year.

Other highlights include Kingfisher, 2 Redstarts, 3 Willow Warblers, 3 Whitethroats, Sedge Warbler, Sand Martin and Swift.

As always there were some glaring omissions. Namely Dunnock, Chaffinch, Coal Tit, Goldcrest, Treecreeper, Nuthatch, Song and Mistle Thrush, Blackcap, Pied Wagtail.