second is a Lesser black-backed Gull, with the right upperpart-colour, a dark slate grey lacking blueish tinge.
First is difficult, at least to me: but: it looks like the adult YLG, I saw this week in SW-Germany :
it seems to have exactly the right shade of an ID-book YLG vs paler HG and darker LBBG, with an just visible blueish tinge
-red eyering (deep colour, but difficult to judge)
-broad black band dividing white tip on underside of p10
-broad black band on p5, but it cant be judged if its complete.
Conclusion? This post is proof a quality and persistence of all the gull experts here, elsewhere on the net, in other forums, those, who identified my own pictures, and id-book authors.
And if I got these Gulls wrong? Then I hope, the before mentioned people dont give up!