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Message: <blockquote data-quote="smiths" data-source="post: 1378686" data-attributes="member: 4346">I agree that the Gwent and Glamorgan birds are Herring Gulls, for reasons already stated (by Ies in particular), but I feel that perhaps too much emphasis is put on the pattern of P5. While this usually differs between Herring and Yellow-legged Gulls, it should be noted that a few YLGulls lack the black band on this primary. It is also clear and perhaps well-known that a complete black band on P5 is present in quite a few adult argentatus (in about 30% in my experience, or even > 40% according to <a href="http://www.gull-research.org/papers/25panov.pdf" target="_blank">Panov & Monzikov 1999</a>).An example of what I think is a 'good' adult Yellow-legged Gull, but one that lacks the black band on P5 is <a href="http://picasaweb.google.be/Zorkyyy/YLGull02#" target="_blank">here</a>. Just to confuse matters a bit more <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />|</blockquote>