Zeiss 8x30 B porro questions (2 Viewers)

[Ignatius]

I have two questions regarding Zeiss' 8x30 B porro.

The first is about the two different versions. Afaik V1, with the air-spaced doublet objectives, was produced from 1954 to 1968. V2, without the air-spaced doublet objectives, was produced from 1968 to the end of production in 1978. Does anyone have any information about serial number ranges for each version, or failing that at least roundabout which number the change from V1 to V2 happened? The reason is that when viewed individually in a sales offer I find I cannot tell which type is being offered.

The second question is about the monoculars in that series. Some have a normal objective tube and look just like half your standard porro bino, but some have an objective tube that looks, and presumably functions, like a camera lens with a scaled focussing ring. What is up with that? When was each type made and were they also made with air-spaced doublets and without?

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi Ignatius,

I can’t help with the serial number ranges of the three 8x30 versions.
(To give others an idea of what’s being discussed with the post-WWII Zeiss West Germany Porro prism binoculars,
including external and cut away views, see at: Zeiss 8X30s )


In relation to monoculars . . .
a) Zeiss introduced the first production Porro prism binoculars in 1894, and by 1896 they were also offering monocular counterparts.
Other European manufacturers followed suit, and the practice was continued well after WWII until the late 1960’s.

b) In the mid 1960’s Zeiss also offered a monocular suitable for attaching to various fixed lens 35 mm cameras.
From a 1964 catalogue:



As can be seen the front ring is for focusing, as the conventional rear focus ring is removed when the monocular is attached to the camera.

And besides the Porro prism version, Zeiss also offered a Schmidt-Pechan version!

See more at: Older Zeiss 8x30B monocular - opinions wanted


John

 

[Ignatius]

Thank you very much for the useful pointers John. Do you think our resident Zeiss specialist @garymh would know some more and be worth contacting with a message?

 

[Patudo]

Every so often I'm tempted to look for the second version of the 8x30B - they're a fascinating binocular and would be a great nostalgia piece. I have to keep reminding myself that what you're getting for the (fairly considerable) time, trouble and expense needed to track one down is a single-coated 8x30 with decently long eye relief and a 130m field of view. A real shame they never made it into the T* multi-coated era like the 7x50 and 15x60 did.

 

[Hermann]

Every so often I'm tempted to look for the second version of the 8x30B - they're a fascinating binocular and would be a great nostalgia piece. I have to keep reminding myself that what you're getting for the (fairly considerable) time, trouble and expense needed to track one down is a single-coated 8x30 with decently long eye relief and a 130m field of view. A real shame they never made it into the T* multi-coated era like the 7x50 and 15x60 did.

Quite right. I've got one, and it's a beautiful, very well-made and nice little binocular with decent image quality. But no more than that. Any modern, reasonably well-made binocular with modern coatings is better optically (contrast, brightness, colour reproduction).

BTW, I personally believe the best of the "old" Zeiss West porros is the 8x50B.

Hermann

 

[henry link]

BTW, I personally believe the best of the "old" Zeiss West porros is the 8x50B.

Hermann

I like that one pretty well too. It would come in second after the last 8x30B on my list with the 6x30 third. I haven't seen the 15x60, but none of the others would make the list at all. I consider the 10x50 "Binocular of the Century" to be the worst of the lot.

Henry

 

[GrampaTom]

Every so often I'm tempted to look for the second version of the 8x30B - they're a fascinating binocular and would be a great nostalgia piece. I have to keep reminding myself that what you're getting for the (fairly considerable) time, trouble and expense needed to track one down is a single-coated 8x30 with decently long eye relief and a 130m field of view. A real shame they never made it into the T* multi-coated era like the 7x50 and 15x60 did.

A question. My 1040B MIWG bought mid 1980s has a T* but no P*. Wasn’t it the P* that was the later improved phase coatings?

Had the 8x30 for a short while. Still have the 10.

 

[Ignatius]

A question. My 1040B MIWG bought mid 1980s has a T* but no P*. Wasn’t it the P* that was the later improved phase coatings?

Had the 8x30 for a short while. Still have the 10.

The anti-reflective T coating to improve transmission values was introduced to civilian binoculars in 1954 and the T* followed in 1978. Phase correction P came in 1986 to be followed quickly by P* in 1988.

 

[Patudo]

It would come in second after the last 8x30B on my list with the 6x30 third. I haven't seen the 15x60, but none of the others would make the list at all. I consider the 10x50 "Binocular of the Century" to be the worst of the lot.

Interesting. In comparing my 8x30 non-B and 10x50 (I've never used the 7x50B or any 8x50 or 15x60 variant) they seem quite similar to my eye, the main difference being magnification and dimensions - the 10x50 may be relatively compact for a binocular in its class but the 8x30 is tiny. The 10x50 is a little brighter, though neither really is at all - I wouldn't disagree with Tobias Mennle's comment that the 8x30 non-B is almost shockingly dark if you're used to modern binoculars. The 8x30B is somewhat brighter than the other two, but still very much as one would expect a single-coated binocular to be. Central sharpness on all three is certainly more than adequate for normal birding tasks (it's the slowness of the focus on the 8x30s that disadvantages them) - I don't think they match the latest modern binoculars when difficult distant targets are zeroed in, but I have tried the 8x30 side by side with the 8x32 FL at closer distances and not thought the former was wanting for sharpness. Comparing the 10x50 alongside my 10x40 P model Dialyt in fairly sunny autumn conditions, I have thought the two seemed very close - the porro maybe a tad sharper, the Dialyt a little brighter. Edge performance seems adequate, especially given the large fields of view. The 8x30 non-B is definitely superior in this respect to the Binuxit although I tend to prefer the superior brightness of the latter - maybe I still have enough accommodation to offset the inferior edge performance, which you do notice after switching over. I haven't been able to try the 10x50 alongside its competition from the same era (multi-coated Dekarems are of course brighter).

I'd be the first to admit these comparisons lack the rigour of the testing processes carried out by guys like yourself though!

It really is a pity that none of these made it to the T* era - from what I gather the more modern 15x60 and (though less discussed here) the 7x50 B/GA are very good performers.

 

[Ignatius]

What do those enamoured of the old 8x30B say, how does it compare optically with its modern relative in spirit, the 8x30 E II?

 

[Patudo]

I wouldn't describe myself as "enamoured" of either the 8x30 or my 8x30B (which is also the earlier model, not the one you're after). But given that no one has attempted to answer your question...

I was able to try the 8x30 EII (anniversary edition, no less) at Birdfair some years back and found it was in that awkward position of having not enough travel beyond infinity for me to use it without glasses, and not enough eye relief for me to use it with. I did, just to satisfy my own curiosity, have a look at targets closer in, and FOV is indeed excellent, perceptibly very wide, but sweet spot did not really impress me, nor did sharpness. As compared to my 8x30 non-B, the EII's brightness is certainly superior (though the Zeiss West did not seem too disadvantaged on that very sunny day), FOV slightly superior, but I thought (though I'd really need to try both side by side again to be absolutely sure) the old Zeiss at least held its own in sweet spot area and central sharpness.

The 8x30 Habicht I tried on the same occasion impressed me more than the EII (not least because it did have enough focus beyond infinity for me to use it, as well as being brighter and sharper), although it did not blow me away enough for me to want to shell out £700, or whatever they cost at the time, for the short eye relief porro experience. Even so I did not actually think (but would need to try both side by side to be sure) the Habicht was visibly superior to the Zeiss West 8x30 in actual sharpness or sweet spot size, though obviously brighter. If I'm not wrong the eyepiece design of the Zeiss West is actually more modern than the Habicht, although coatings of the latter are far superior. I recall one of the Swaro - or maybe Zeiss - staff trying my pair and about a couple of seconds after raising them to his eyes, still looking through them, muttering something like "these really aren't bad, are they?"

FOV of the first version 8x30B is narrow, although the very good edge performance helps offset this. The second version has a more usual (though not exceptional) 130m, but the EII obviously gives you more. I'm not sure how much coatings improved between the two models, but even the second version is still single-coated and will be visibly behind the EII in brightness. Hopefully someone with more experience of both will chime in.

 

[Ignatius]

Thanks @Patudo. I have a question for you: how does a bino travel beyond infinity, and how would one even be able to see that?
I have an instrument that does not reach infinity, namely my CZJ Tur(d)mon which will not focus beyond say 10 m. I've had it apart and could not find anything obviously amiss. And of course that problem is visible - things further away will never come into focus.
But how does an optical instrument go beyond infinity and how does that look like?

 

[Maljunulo]

Maybe I’m just simple-minded, but I would say “keep moving the focusing element, or assembly, after you reach infinity focus.”

What am I not understanding here?

 

[Patudo]

@Ignatius - let me try to describe it as happens with me. Let's say I use a binocular with glasses (so my nearsightedness is essentially corrected). If I look at something at infinity (stars etc) I turn the focus wheel to the point that they are in focus; the binocular is at that point "at infinity".

Now, if I were to remove my glasses and wanted to view the same target, I'd need to turn the focus wheel further ("beyond infinity") in order to compensate. With some (eg. Nikon 8x30 EII mentioned above) the focus wheel cannot be turned far enough to make up for my myopia ("not enough focus beyond infinity"). That wouldn't be a problem if the binocular had enough eye relief to allow me to use it with glasses, but the EII doesn't; I have to use it without.

You fellows who don't wear glasses are very fortunate!

 

[Swig Waltersson]

In case any of you Zeiss nerds are interested, someone in Berlin is selling off a collection of classics, some of which look completely unused: Alle Anzeigen von Roland | Kleinanzeigen.

 

[Swig Waltersson]

Every so often I'm tempted to look for the second version of the 8x30B - they're a fascinating binocular and would be a great nostalgia piece. I have to keep reminding myself that what you're getting for the (fairly considerable) time, trouble and expense needed to track one down is a single-coated 8x30 with decently long eye relief and a 130m field of view. A real shame they never made it into the T* multi-coated era like the 7x50 and 15x60 did.

This seems to be what you are looking for, again in Germany: Zeiss West 8x30 B Porro 7-stellige Serie (Typ II)

The seller says it is the last model produced, with a 133m FOV. Adds that the seven-digit serial number is proof, and that all earlier variants had six digits.

He claims practically all remaining samples of this binocular are in collections and even warns anyone reading that this is the last chance to get one!