Zeiss New Product Development and How SF Binoculars Were Created (2 Viewers)

[b3rd]

Really awesome post. A fascinating insight into the process of bringing a legendary binocular to the market.

 

[Hermann]

Is there a Zeiss bino from the past that has a style that you would prefer to the SF or HT?

The 10x50, the 8x50 and especially the 8x30B - the old porro range, with modern coatings and glass types ...

Hermann

 

[PHA]

Hi,

Having hada the FL and HT '42 binoculars, the ONLY thing I don't like (and don't understand why Zeiss
couldn't take care addecuately when designed the HT if it were aimed to hunters), is the veiling claire control...!!!
Otherwise, the HT 42 would be THE PERFECT binocular to me!

 

[PHA]

Sorry for my writing! I did it from my cel phone....

 

[NDhunter]

Hi,

Having hada the FL and HT '42 binoculars, the ONLY thing I don't like (and don't understand why Zeiss
couldn't take care addecuately when designed the HT if it were aimed to hunters), is the veiling claire control...!!!
Otherwise, the HT 42 would be THE PERFECT binocular to me!

The ergos. of the FL were superior to the HT. I thought the HT was quite
different and hard to hold, I only handled one once, and I could not figure
out what finger to use to focus. That was awkward, not good.

And I do know how to handle a binocular.

Jerry

 

[james holdsworth]

Hi,

Having hada the FL and HT '42 binoculars, the ONLY thing I don't like (and don't understand why Zeiss
couldn't take care addecuately when designed the HT if it were aimed to hunters), is the veiling claire control...!!!
Otherwise, the HT 42 would be THE PERFECT binocular to me!

Thanks for mentioning, for the 20th time. This is how the urban legend is formed - repetition, repetition, repetition.

99% of us HT users do not have your problem - maybe it's just you or maybe your unit is flawed? My HT is the best at dealing with stray light of any bino in my collection....there are more than enough user reviews that echo that to assume your experience is an outlier and not typical.

 

[Troubador]

The ergos. of the FL were superior to the HT. I thought the HT was quite
different and hard to hold, I only handled one once, and I could not figure
out what finger to use to focus. That was awkward, not good.

And I do know how to handle a binocular.

Jerry

Wow Jerry, and I thought the HT handling was at least as big an improvement as the optics compared with FL.

Lee

 

[PYRTLE]

I too, disliked the HT handling, having been used to a smaller 8x32 FL. But when I tested the SF of a friend in Shetland ( x10 ) it suited me well. Also, being a dedicated x8 user, the image in at dusk watching a hunting otter was impressive. I ended up with a black x8 SF.......no regrets.

 

[PHA]

Hi,

James, it is not my "impression" this veiling glare (not stray light or internal reflections) issue in the HT. As much as I like mines, the veiling glare IS a big issue in difficult light conditions. Period! Compared, side by side, with A Leica Noctivid the difference is OUTSTANDING!!!! Even, side by side with my Habicht 10x40 W GA, this Swarovski is better on this. I said many times, this is the ONLY negative observation I make about the Zeiss HT 42s. The ergonomic is, to me, PERFECT. Having had the FL 10x42 the improvement is very big!

Best!

PHA

 

[Sagittarius]

Late to the game but I have enjoyed this topic.
Thanks, Lee. :t:
Wish the SF was made in higher powers.

 

[Patudo]

The 10x50, the 8x50 and especially the 8x30B - the old porro range, with modern coatings and glass types ...

Hermann

I, too, love the idea of a 10x50 with even the T* coatings of the 1980s, let alone those of today. But there's no way the cost of re-starting production of the Oberkochen porros (certainly not in Germany) could ever be made up for by sales. I completely understand the company looking towards the future rather than the past. But there's no reason why (given the likes of CNC technology that simply weren't around when the binoculars we think of today as classics were manufactured) the build quality of the past can't be combined with modern optical and ergonomic designs.

 

[Troubador]

Late to the game but I have enjoyed this topic.
Thanks, Lee. :t:
Wish the SF was made in higher powers.

Thanks Sagi!!

Lee

 

[eronald]

I, too, love the idea of a 10x50 with even the T* coatings of the 1980s, let alone those of today. But there's no way the cost of re-starting production of the Oberkochen porros (certainly not in Germany) could ever be made up for by sales. I completely understand the company looking towards the future rather than the past. But there's no reason why (given the likes of CNC technology that simply weren't around when the binoculars we think of today as classics were manufactured) the build quality of the past can't be combined with modern optical and ergonomic designs.

I'm sure that one of the bino repair shops could get an automatic coating machine and recoat the lenses in old porros as a service - the prisms don't need a coating AFAIK. Whether this would make economical sense or not is a different question, in any case one can still get a modern Habicht 8x30 for reasonable money compared to a roof, and fairly decent coated samples from the 80s are still floating around.

Edmund

 

[typo]

Edmund,

We've had a number of people in the trade tell us at different times that either replacing or upgrading the coatings on lenses is either impossible, or at the very least cost prohibative. I appreciate that some high street chains of opticians do offer basic coatings "in house" but I suspect even then the equipment cost would be well beyond the means of any binocular repair shop. Some years ago an European manufacturer told me their various coating machines cost between €1.5M and €5M and their facility considerably more. This video of a spectacle lens operation might give you some idea of the processes involved. From what I understand, sports optics lens coating is another step up. https://youtu.be/sScO19AGwW0

Cheers,

David

 

[Apochromat]

Mom and Pop Coating

Hello Edmund,

to apply even a more basic anti- reflex coating is not only about having access to such an instrument, it is also about all the knowledge and technology involved and behind. Usually this is a secret of each and every optical instrument maker, e.g. binocular maker. It is like having access to a Steinway piano on one side and being able to play Mozart´s piano concert like Glenn Gould on it on the other side.

BTW, coating technology was invented by CARL ZEISS in 1936 ("Transparent-Belag", T- Belag) by Prof. Alexander Smakula in Jena.


Some German companies offer state-of-the-art re-coating as a special service. But usually the price asked for that will easily exceed the price of any commercially available bin.

Customized high-end coatings can be made by SCHOTT or ZEISS and LEICA in their special optics departments, outside from their sport optics branches, but more regularly here: https://www.opticsbalzers.com/en/products/. They are very famous for that.

A highly recommendable company (formerly belonging to KOMBINAT VEB CARL ZEISS Jena) with very consumer friendly prices but very high standards for such services is: Precision Optics Gera, see here: https://www.pog.eu/index.html

Another option is here:
https://www.pgo-online.com/intl/ and here:
https://www.pgo-online.com/intl/service/rfqc.html

All the best
Michael

I just realized that this part of the thread is a bit off-topic. Sorry for that.

 

[typo]

Apochromat,

I had a few trips to Jena in the early '90 to meet with various companies that rose from the collapse of Zeiss Jena. I met some delightful, tallented, and enterprising people that were desparate for investment back then. (My professional interest was scientific optical instrumentation at that time) I'm delighted that some have succeeded.

From what I understand, any prior coatings would normally need to be remove prior to recoating. It seems that will usually mean regrinding. Do any of those companies offer both resurfacing and recoating? I've no doubt it can be done, but couldn't find company who offered both as a service?

David

 

[Apochromat]

Apochromat,

I had a few trips to Jena in the early '90 to meet with various companies that rose from the collapse of Zeiss Jena. I met some delightful, tallented, and enterprising people that were desparate for investment back then. (My professional interest was scientific optical instrumentation at that time) I'm delighted that some have succeeded.

From what I understand, any prior coatings would normally need to be remove prior to recoating. It seems that will usually mean regrinding. Do any of those companies offer both resurfacing and recoating? I've no doubt it can be done, but couldn't find company who offered both as a service?

David

Hello David,
coatings can be removed mechanically by repolishing (but that will affect the morphology of the prism or lens and is difficult due to the then not always available tooling etc.) and chemically by applying acids (but some glasses are also affected not only the coatings themselves). I think the best is to contact a company like POG and ask for advice here.

Thanks
Michael

 

[eronald]

I am surprised that nobody has sent in an old bino for recoating the lenses, or even for resilvering a prism. In the case of a really old instrument, the lenses wouldn't be coated in the first place, and eg. coating the objectives wouldn't require removing a preceding coating.

A couple of years ago I got interested in old laptops, and made myself a1980s Apple Powerbook 180C with a flash drive and a new battery, starting with a couple of old ones I got on ebay, and a SCSI flash adapter. In various ways, pleasant keyboard, central control ball, super-sharp screen, pixel-sharp fonts and interface, this is a very interesting functioning computer.

Edmund

 

[NDhunter]

I am surprised that nobody has sent in an old bino for recoating the lenses, or even for resilvering a prism. In the case of a really old instrument, the lenses wouldn't be coated in the first place, and eg. coating the objectives wouldn't require removing a preceding coating.

A couple of years ago I got interested in old laptops, and made myself a1980s Apple Powerbook 180C with a flash drive and a new battery, starting with a couple of old ones I got on ebay, and a SCSI flash adapter. In various ways, pleasant keyboard, central control ball, super-sharp screen, pixel-sharp fonts and interface, this is a very interesting functioning computer.

Edmund

Edmund:

You don't seem to understand, optics and lenses are complex, lenses may
require several coating applications for the proper use.

Computer applications are much different, just adding components, any
robot can assemble one.

Jerry

 

[jring]

Hi,

I am not sure if those high street chains will do the coatings themselves, rather than giving them out to some special shop.

One would obviously also want to multicoat coat porro prisms too. For Schmidt-Pechan prisms you'd rather not multicoat all sides, so things get more complicated.

The main problem with re-coating already coated elements is that you need to get the old coatings off first for reproducible results and that usually needs to be done by polishing - preferably without changing the figure of lenses, which is quite a lot of work.

Joachim