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Feel the intensity, not your equipment. Maximum image quality. Minimum weight. The new ZEISS SFL, up to 30% less weight than comparable competitors.

Zeiss SFL 8x30? (4 Viewers)

Vespobuteo

Well-known member
Lee,

Makes perfect sense. The manufactures are after all in business to sell their wares.

In light of Vespobuteo's observations, I wonder whether Leica soldiered on with the 7x42 UV line in spite of a diminishing market because the UV were at least outselling Zeiss T FL and EDG versions (?). The 7x35 Trinovid/"Retrovid" makes sense from a marketing standpoint based on its beautiful vintage styling and reportedly compact, handy size. The SW Curio makes sense as well in that it is a true "shirt pocket" model with 3 mm EP and wide FOV. But these three seem to have swept the field at 7x, at least for the present.

Mike

I suspect the 7x42:s are made on order these days.
Not easy to find them in stock.
 

b-lilja

Well-known member
I found it telling that when I bought my 7x42 UVHD+s from the Bellevue Leica store a couple years ago, their other set was manufactured in 2015....
 

b-lilja

Well-known member
I should also add, this would be the perfect opportunity for Zeiss to not use the "Designed by Zeiss" moniker and also put the old "Z" logo on the outbound hinge cap...:)
 

Brummie

Well-known member
Just when I thought I was out . . .

If these are similar in performance to the 8x40, this should help fill a gaping hole in the market - a really good compact & lightweight 30/32 model. For some people, that's the MHG 8x30, but I'm in the camp of not being able to get past the blackouts. I've also never tried the 8x30 CL, but my impression is that they're not outstanding for the money, and the FOV also seems a little narrow.
 

Vespobuteo

Well-known member
Just when I thought I was out . . .

If these are similar in performance to the 8x40, this should help fill a gaping hole in the market - a really good compact & lightweight 30/32 model. For some people, that's the MHG 8x30, but I'm in the camp of not being able to get past the blackouts. I've also never tried the 8x30 CL, but my impression is that they're not outstanding for the money, and the FOV also seems a little narrow.

Smaller size do come with some evitable limitations, but if Zeiss can make them just a little better than CL and MHG together, they can be worth the extra cost.


CL vs MHG:

 

Pinewood

New York correspondent
United States
Just when I thought I was out . . .

If these are similar in performance to the 8x40, this should help fill a gaping hole in the market - a really good compact & lightweight 30/32 model. For some people, that's the MHG 8x30, but I'm in the camp of not being able to get past the blackouts. I've also never tried the 8x30 CL, but my impression is that they're not outstanding for the money, and the FOV also seems a little narrow.
Hello Brummie,

I have had several 8x30/32: Leica BN, Zeiss FL, Zeiss Dialyt ClassiC, Nikon EII and Nikon SE.. The maths show a 3.75mm or 4mm exit pupil for these glasses, implying a little difficulty in aligning the eye, the ocular and the objective. However, only the Nikon 8x32SE gave me blackouts or rather kidney bean efects. I also have two vintage Bausch & Lomb 8x30 and two Leitz 8x30 Binuxit which never gave me such difficulty. It is not just a matter of a narrow exit pupil.

Stay safe,
Arthur
 

Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Hello Brummie,

I have had several 8x30/32: Leica BN, Zeiss FL, Zeiss Dialyt ClassiC, Nikon EII and Nikon SE.. The maths show a 3.75mm or 4mm exit pupil for these glasses, implying a little difficulty in aligning the eye, the ocular and the objective. However, only the Nikon 8x32SE gave me blackouts or rather kidney bean efects. I also have two vintage Bausch & Lomb 8x30 and two Leitz 8x30 Binuxit which never gave me such difficulty. It is not just a matter of a narrow exit pupil.

Stay safe,
Arthur
And I have had Meopta MeoStar B1 8x32, GPO 8x32, Opticron Traveller 8x32, Zeiss FL 8x32, Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32, Zeiss SF 8x32 and have reviewed more than 12 32mm models. I never had a problem with blackouts even though I wear spectacles.

Lee
 

Vespobuteo

Well-known member
And I have had Meopta MeoStar B1 8x32, GPO 8x32, Opticron Traveller 8x32, Zeiss FL 8x32, Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32, Zeiss SF 8x32 and have reviewed more than 12 32mm models. I never had a problem with blackouts even though I wear spectacles.

Lee

Isn't blackouts mostly a problem when eye cups are too short and eye relief is too long?

I checked/measured the photos and it seems that the eye cups extend the same distance for both the SFL30 and SFL40.
Which might be and indication of similar eye relief in the SFL30 and SFL40.

The Monarch HG 8x30 happens to have the same usable ER as the SFL40; 15.5mm (though the spec differ 16 vs 18mm)...


Who knows, they might even have some common DNA?
 

Scott98

Well-known member
Jamaica
FWIW.....another vote for 7x30 or even 6x30 SFL's....not going to happen. Entering a time machine is the only way I"m going to find premium 6x or 7x 30mm binos it seems
 

Hermann

Well-known member
I checked/measured the photos and it seems that the eye cups extend the same distance for both the SFL30 and SFL40.
Which might be and indication of similar eye relief in the SFL30 and SFL40.

The Monarch HG 8x30 happens to have the same usable ER as the SFL40; 15.5mm (though the spec differ 16 vs 18mm)...
Pure speculation.
Who knows, they might even have some common DNA?
Yet more pure speculation about a binocular no one here has yet seen or handled.

Hermann
 

yarrellii

Well-known member
Supporter
... For some people, that's the MHG 8x30, but I'm in the camp of not being able to get past the blackouts...
This is interesting. I've had the Nikon Monarch 7 8x30, Opticron Traveller 8x32, Swarovski CL 8x30, Kite Lynx HD+ 8x30, Meostar 8x32, UVHD 8x32, FL 8x32, ELSV 8x32 and many other 8x30-32 and never had any blackout issue, until I tried the MHG 8x30, which on paper looked like my ideal 8x30-32, but hard as I tried I simply couldn't avoid blackouts, and bear in min that for years I've used very similar 8x30's (Monarch 7, Traveller, etc.). So, in my case, the MHG does suffer from a blackout issue which I don't think it's related to exit pupil size, since I've used many other 8x30's with great pleasure, like the EII 8x30, which many praise (myself included) for its ease of view, even if it has a 3,75 mm EP. On the other hand, the Conquest HD 8x42, with a 5,25 mm EP also gave me blackout issues, and its smaller sibling, the Conquest HD 8x32 wasn't the most comfortable view either, even with the latest eyecups. Always talking about personal experience, not saying "this is the truth". Funny how I've used many 8x30-32 without blackout issues but had to gave up on the MHG 8x30, even if I really wanted to like it. I'm relieved to find someone how found the same as I did.
 

Vespobuteo

Well-known member
This is interesting. I've had the Nikon Monarch 7 8x30, Opticron Traveller 8x32, Swarovski CL 8x30, Kite Lynx HD+ 8x30, Meostar 8x32, UVHD 8x32, FL 8x32, ELSV 8x32 and many other 8x30-32 and never had any blackout issue, until I tried the MHG 8x30, which on paper looked like my ideal 8x30-32, but hard as I tried I simply couldn't avoid blackouts, and bear in min that for years I've used very similar 8x30's (Monarch 7, Traveller, etc.). So, in my case, the MHG does suffer from a blackout issue which I don't think it's related to exit pupil size, since I've used many other 8x30's with great pleasure, like the EII 8x30, which many praise (myself included) for its ease of view, even if it has a 3,75 mm EP. On the other hand, the Conquest HD 8x42, with a 5,25 mm EP also gave me blackout issues, and its smaller sibling, the Conquest HD 8x32 wasn't the most comfortable view either, even with the latest eyecups. Always talking about personal experience, not saying "this is the truth". Funny how I've used many 8x30-32 without blackout issues but had to gave up on the MHG 8x30, even if I really wanted to like it. I'm relieved to find someone how found the same as I did.

Are you a eye-glass wearer?

Would be interesting to know if the blackouts some see in the MHG is more related to "kidney bean blackout" than the distance to the eye piece/short eye cups type "blackout".

I've tried the MHG:s only briefly (in good light though) but I had no problem with them (with glasses), on the contrary they were one of the best 8x30/32 bins with glasses I've tried considering eye relief.

"Blackouts are caused by being closer to the eyepiece than the exit pupil position. Kidney bean is a form of vignetting caused by SAEP, spherical aberration of the exit pupil."

 
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yarrellii

Well-known member
Supporter
Are you a eye-glass wearer?
No, I'm not.
Reading reviews/opinions over the years I've come to the conclusion that it is indeed interesting to know whether or not the person saying binocular X fits him/her is an eye-glass wearer. For example, I tend to have issues with narrow eyecups, which is something usually spectacle wearers don't complain about. It's something I have learned to actively look for in a review.
 

Vespobuteo

Well-known member
No, I'm not.
Reading reviews/opinions over the years I've come to the conclusion that it is indeed interesting to know whether or not the person saying binocular X fits him/her is an eye-glass wearer. For example, I tend to have issues with narrow eyecups, which is something usually spectacle wearers don't complain about. It's something I have learned to actively look for in a review.

I totally agree, narrow eye cups may dangle in empty space and correct alignment will be more difficult. I prefer wider that can be supported on my upper eye sockets/brows. Spectacles do help a bit with the narrower eye cups, giving some support, but I can fully understand the non-spectacles dilemma.
 

yarrellii

Well-known member
Supporter
Is “narrower” the same as smaller in diameter?
Yes, I guess so. The fact that binocular X has an eyecup of diameter Y while binocular Z has a diameter of Y + 5 mm, for example. Have a look at this list of measurements of different eyecup diameters (in mm):

Leica Ultravid 8x20: 20 mm (-)
Swarovski Habicht 8x20: 21 mm (+)
Zeiss Terra 8x24: 23 mm
Leica “Retrovid” 7x35: 24 mm
Opticron Traveller BGA ED 8x32: 27+ mm
Kowa YF 8x30: 27 mm
Vixen New Foresta HR 8x56 WP: 29 mm
Swarovski EL SV 8x32: 31 mm
Nikon CF III 7x21: 31 mm
Zeiss Victory FL 7x42*: 32 mm
Nikon A (Gold Sentinel) 7x35: 35 mm
Canon IS III 12x36: 35 mm (+)
Vortex Diamondback HD 8x32: 25/36 mm (they have a "double rim" design)
Nikon EII 8x30: 38 mm

It's from this thread. As you can see, eyecup diameter varies quite a lot. After trying dozens upon dozens of binoculars I've discovered that eyecup diameter is relevant for me (while others value focus turning direction, which is something I pay no attention to).
 

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