Zen ED2 7X36 available on ZEN Ray for pre order (1 Viewer)

[FrankD]

For $200 I think you are dreaming. For $600 I could see it happening. Once you start going up to around $700 or $800 then you run into the Minox and Pentax competition. If you can produce a solid mid-sized scope for around $600 with the optical performance level of the current, or soon current, Zen Ray ED binoculars then you are sure to have a hit. The Promaster attempt at it was not as bad as original reviews posted. I have the Promaster 65 ED and it is a solid scope. It is not worth the $800 it was selling for but it definitely is worth the $400 I paid for it.

 

[mayoayo]

I am talking about a small scope..like the ED50..Small aperture (50-55)should make a scope less expensive.I dont really know how much is the cost, for unit, to produce a scope or a binocular,or the profit margins for manufacturers..But if the retail of a ZEN ED with all the new features is 400$,..A Porro prism,small scope ,(that doesnt need phase coating,etc,..)Only half a binocular body and a small ED objective(no need for collimation,which is a expensive part of the process) ,Shall not be too much off the 200$-250$ retail(Ok make it 300$)...the Nikon ED50 can be found for 400$ or so.
The thing Is that Now ,We know That excellent optics can be produced and sold for a reasonably inexpensive price,or even really inexpensive(Steve C was saying really good things about a 119$ binocular),So Who knows?

 

[falcondude]

As Tero has enlightened us though, those are "bino bucks" and can only be used for future binocular purchases. Whose to say there won't be a 8x25 Zen ED II or even a 10x50 ED II? Heck why not a Zen ED spotting scope!



Yeah, I know...wishful thinking but I don't want you doin' anything rash.

I never got that concept of "bino bucks". Does it mean if I sell a binoculars, the proceeds become bino-bucks and shall be re-invested into another optics?

 

[FrankD]

FD,

Yes, exactly.

Manuel,

Ah, now I understand. Along that line of thought I agree with you. As you made reference to with Steve's comments there definitely are some very nice optical instruments at or slightly above the $100 price point now (almost all porros) so why not a small porro scope with an ED objective. I would love to see it!

 

[kristoffer]

Why not an Zen Alpha-scope 65mm for around $1000? Beat the best, cost a lot less, just like the roof 43mm. Isn´t it easier to construct a good scope then good roofs? More space = easier to design? I mean, they can do the roofs, they should be able to make alpha scope too.

 

[Kevin Purcell]

I think it's the other way around ... more magnification more ways of showing problems in a scope.

That's also why scopes are more expensive than bins (for a given quality level) even though there is only one barrel full of glass

I'm sure q few people have their eye on this (there has been a burst of new Chinese dual-focus enclosures in the last 6 months so perhaps they're starting to work on this).

And there's the Bosma Nikon ED82 copy that you can buy in Europe at least ...

 

[mayoayo]

That is also true,When you start to push magnification,all the errors that can pass for good in an 8x or 10X instrument really start showing..But for the magnifications achieved by a scope,specially a small,short focal length,It should no be that hard to keep the relatively low Magnification under control...
Glass is what gets expensive,..an 80mm ED lens is pricey,..
I dont know if you remember an article in BVD called "How big a scope a birder needs",..In that article the Author is questioning if,with all the quality 65mm scopes available,the need for a larger lens,was vital for most uses...After using a small, ED ,high quality 50mm scope (nikon ED50),I am more convinced that aperture is not the only factor in brightness!!!!,,Just like the SE8x32 can make seem dim larger binoculars,a good 50mm scope can really do the job of keeping with magnification..using less precious glass!!!
1 grand for an alpha scope 65mm would be a good price,BUT STILL A LOT OF MONEY,As a matter of fact You can buy REALLY GOOD SCOPES today for quite less than that(and if made your mind to put 1000$ in a scope you can get pretty much go Alpha in the used market ,for about that much.).I think the Mystery of the ZEN ED series is that they are Not too expensive

 

[FrankD]

I think the $1500 Vortex ED scope currently on the market is a good example of what can be done optically for far less money the Alphas and as I mentioned above the Pentax model in particular compares very favorably for under $1000 with the Alphas...assuming the XW eyepieces.

No, in my opinion, the cost of the scope would have to be between $600 and $700 for it to find a niche in the current scope market.

....but, yes, we are getting a bit off topic. That always seems to happen.

 

[Kevin Purcell]

That is also true,When you start to push magnification,all the errors that can pass for good in an 8x or 10X instrument really start showing..But for the magnifications achieved by a scope,specially a small,short focal length,It should no be that hard to keep the relatively low Magnification under control...

And by definition a scope has higher magnification and depending on your birding you need 45x (or more) on a 65mm scope and 60x on an 80mm scope. So I'm not sure what you are suggesting (unless you mean only have 50mm scopes that go to 25x ...)

Providing the magnification expected of a scope means that the lenses have to be figured right have to be more accurately concentric, have to be perpendicular to the axis, etc, etc. The manufacturing tolerances are a lot smaller in scope making.

In fact one might use this as a benchmark that Chinese optical manufacturing has arrived when they produce scopes that are to the top scopes as the Chinese ED bins are to the top bins.

50mm ED scopes are good but they're not a replacement for bigger scopes. Once again you are trading weight and size (both in scope and tripod) for features.

Finally the good, wide field zoom EP is the "single" most critical part of a scope and the bit the really sets the quality for the scope too. The objective (especially with Chinese ED glass) is not that expensive compared to the rest of the scope and the EP.

For example you can see this with the Sandpiper a low-mid scope which has a big EP (bigger than the competitors).

I would suggest that any scope builders out there that need a tip: its in the EP quality that sets the limits for the scope (if you are any way decent building the rest of the scope).

The other issue here is numbers: far fewer scopes sell compared to bins. I think that affects the distribution of effort of many optical companies. Many don't even get involved with scopes.

 

[falcondude]

I think the $1500 Vortex ED scope currently on the market is a good example of what can be done optically for far less money the Alphas and as I mentioned above the Pentax model in particular compares very favorably for under $1000 with the Alphas...assuming the XW eyepieces.

No, in my opinion, the cost of the scope would have to be between $600 and $700 for it to find a niche in the current scope market.

....but, yes, we are getting a bit off topic. That always seems to happen.

If it will ever come out with a $700 ED scope, I will save up for it.

 

[Steve C]

If it will ever come out with a $700 ED scope, I will save up for it.

Vortex had Nomad ED straight for $500 at their site.

 

[falcondude]

Vortex had Nomad ED straight for $500 at their site.

You mean Skyline ED? I have tried that one before, was not too impressed. What really bothers me is how bulky that scope is.

 

[Steve C]

You mean Skyline ED? I have tried that one before, was not too impressed. What really bothers me is how bulky that scope is.

OOPS! My bad, yeah I mis-spoke. Skyline, 2007 model, and it was at Eagle Optics.

 

[FrankD]

You had me excited there for a moment Steve.

How about a Sandpiper ED?

Zen ED 65?

 

[Pinewood]

About the eye cups…

Hello,

Are the eye cups easily removable from the current Zen binoculars? Should I buy the 7x36, I might like to remove them, altogether.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :egghead:

 

[Fireform]

Hello,

Are the eye cups easily removable from the current Zen binoculars? Should I buy the 7x36, I might like to remove them, altogether.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :egghead:

I don't think they are removable in any straightforward way, like your Zeisses are. But, IMO, they're pretty good as they are.

 

[falcondude]

I just checked my 8x43 ZEN ED. They don't look like removable part. But I am sure you can peel off the rubber eyecup cover. Why would someone want to do that?:-C

 

[Pinewood]

I just checked my 8x43 ZEN ED. They don't look like removable part. But I am sure you can peel off the rubber eyecup cover. Why would someone want to do that?:-C

Hello Falcondude,

I might want to experiment, wearing my specs and having no eyecups.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

 

[falcondude]

that will be interesting. I presume removing eyecups will not damage the waterproof feature, right?

 

[Kevin Purcell]

That might depend on the design of the bin.

For example my Bushnell Elites one can unscrew the eyecups (and perhaps replace them with more recent four stop eyecups?) very easily (too easily!) with no compromise the waterproofing.

Not sure how it is with the ZR ED but I haven't seen an easy way to remove them.

I'd ask ZR before you try