Zen Ray and Generation II ED's? (1 Viewer)

[Buz]

Any word on whether Zen Ray is going to ratchet-up their beta ED binoculars?(by fixing what people have felt are its' shortcomings)
I believe complaints have been the following:
- Loose eyecups.
- Exposed grease in focusing mechanism.
- Too flashy "ZenRay" written on focus wheel
- Long strap.
- Focus Wheel direction.
- Quality Control Standards

Barring the grease in the focusing mechanism, It would seem Zen Ray should be able to fix the other issues without much of a line change or price change. No?

Does anyone think the big 3(or 4) should be worrying about these guys(ZR) at this point?

 

[Kevin Purcell]

Focus Wheel direction

You prefer counter-clockwise to infinity? Say, unlike, Zen Ray Zeiss and numerous other bins I have that focus clockwise to infinity. Not sure where you picked up that one as an problem

In the many ZRs I've handled I've never noticed any loose eyecups.

The exposed grease on the barrel interior is not an issue, IMHO. See my response to that problem on the original thread.

And I don't see their QS as being much worse than others. Not perfect but then Dalat has seen as many Leica's with dust in the ocular as I've seen ZR with the same problem.

Ah, the "vivid" badging and the strap seem like actual annoyances. Along with the too loose tethered objective covers (that you missed but is perhaps the most serious issue I have with the bins ... almost lost covers twice). They should all be fixable, I should think.

But you'd have to ask Zen Ray as they're the only ones that actually know.

Right now I don't think the Top 4 bin makers would be worried (anymore than American automakers worried about the Japanese in the 1960s) but I'm worried about the Top 4's stratospheric pricing.

 

[Steve C]

I've been through a bunch of different optics in my life. I do not see the QC of Zen Ray as any more of a problem than with any other brand. I do not particularly see any poor quality issues either. But we are dealing with man made mechanical things and mechanical things can and will fail. The only way to really analyze that is to take the optic out and use it. We are dealing with mid price binoculars, so I have no particular expectation of indestructibility. At that price the optics quality is the draw.

There never has been and probably never will be any sort of focus standard. Some go clockwise to infinity some counter clockwise. Some focus fast, others slow.

I agree in that I do not particularly enjoy being a bill board for the optics company should I decide to use their strap, which I almost never do anyway.

Give them a call and talk to them about your wishes. I would not be surprised to see some sort of product advances from them as a matter of course in any event.

 

[FrankD]

I have to agree with Steve and Kevin when it comes to the quality control issue. I haven't seen any significant problems with the Zen EDs and the only one I remember seeing posted on the forums was Chartwell's eyecup measurement difference (resolved with a new binocular in two days IIRC).

I posted the original comments about the eyecups. They are not loose. What I was originally referencing is that I would like them to have a tighter feel (similar to what the high end models feel like). More tension if you like when you twist them. I use mine in the fully collapsed position and have not had any problem over the last 5 months of using them.

As for the general question of an upgrade....yep, you would have to email Zen Ray support to hear it from the proverbial horse's mouth.

 

[falcondude]

Other than the long neckstrap, I didn't have any issue with my pair. The focus wheel direction is same as Swaroski EL's. It just take a few minutes to get use to it if you are used to CCW to infinity. When EL fist came out, quite a few people were questioning whether the exposed focuser rod (you can see it from the objective lens side) would cause debris from friction. Well, it turns out being a non-issue.

 

[FrankD]

Buz,

I would be interested if you do hear something from them.

 

[Buz]

Buz,

I would be interested if you do hear something from them.

Frank, I haven't actually inquired with ZR about this. I just wanted to know if anyone on the forum had inside information on ZR's position regarding the 'shortcomings' of their ED's.
I was going to break the bank later this year and go for a Leica Ultravid 10x, but now I'm almost certain the ZR's will wind up at my door instead.

 

[Alexis Powell]

I believe complaints have been the following:
- Loose eyecups.
- Exposed grease in focusing mechanism.
- Too flashy "ZenRay" written on focus wheel
- Long strap.
- Focus Wheel direction.
- Quality Control Standards

You missed, what are for me, the biggest issues: slow focus and stiff focus in cold.

--AP

 

[Buz]

You missed, what are for me, the biggest issues: slow focus and stiff focus in cold.

--AP

Please explain 'slow focus' in more detail. I'm guessing you mean inside of 30ft? Are they 'slow' from 30ft out to infinity?

Stiff focusing in cold seems a common issue with any bino using grease as a lubricant; so I don't know if that is unique to ZR.

Revised issues:
- Poor fitting objective covers
- Loose feeling eyecups.
- Exposed grease in focusing mechanism.
- Too flashy "ZenRay" written on focus wheel
- Long strap.
- 'Slow' focus

 

[CLRobles]

A little off topic here but if I may ask a question about optical quality of these new Chinese HD bins? What is the feeling of the overall quality of build, ergonomics, and optical quality compared to say ten year old alphas? I see most of these Chinese HD's are in that $300 to $500 range. I can find Doctor Aspherics, Zeiss Classics, Swaro SLC's, and Leica Trinovids, Nikon lx and lxl's, and Nikon SE's for this range. So really, how do these new Chinese HD's compare to these and why would people buy them over the older alphas?

 

[Steve C]

The attraction for the Chinese ED is their optical image vs price. Having said that they are not cheaply made. The have the feel of binoculars in the Pentax SP, Vortex Viper or Vortex Razor class of binocular. There is perhaps not quite the same feel as the alpha, but there is nothing to put me off from them either.

For me when I can get that image for $360 in a binocular that has every appearance of being quite robust enough to stand up to the usual use, I have no particular expectation of indestructibility.

Besides that ultimate ergonomic feel is pretty much decided on an individual basis.

I think they are better optically than the ten year old alphas. They are in some respects better optically than any current alpha. Sounds like heresy to many, but you sort of have to see it for yourself.

 

[NDhunter]

Check out the ZenRay website. The new generation Ed 2, models are now listed.
Included are dielectric prism coating, faster focus, new strap, locking diopter, new
lens repel coating, etc. There is now a new 7x36, and the prices have gone up approx.$150 on the 8x43 and 10x42.

 

[Steve C]

I figured this was coming. Now we will see how hard everybody cries about a price increase to correct what everyone wanted them to improve ||

Edit:

I just opened an e-mail from Zen Ray it contained the following quote.

"We are accepting custom pre-orders with FREE shipping promotion and 20% OFF. The promotional price are $412 (10x43); $400 (8x43) and $370 (7x36). The first shipment will arrive in the end of July."

 

[Alexis Powell]

Check out the ZenRay website. The new generation Ed 2, models are now listed.
Included are dielectric prism coating, faster focus, new strap, locking diopter, new
lens repel coating, etc. There is now a new 7x36, and the prices have gone up approx.$150 on the 8x43 and 10x42.

Bravo to Zen-Ray for the lens coating, prism coating and focus speed improvements. I'd sure like to see eye-relief and FOV specs for that 7x36!

Buz- It is true that stiffening in the cold is common in cheap binoculars, even at moderate temperatures (sometimes even above freezing), but premium models, even those that use grease, usually stay quite smooth down to zero degrees F or even well below that.

--AP

 

[Surveyor]

Bravo to Zen-Ray for the lens coating, prism coating and focus speed improvements. I'd sure like to see eye-relief and FOV specs for that 7x36!

Alexis, see http://www.zen-ray.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=250

 

[FrankD]

Oh that 7x36 is going to turn alot of heads if it is as good as the current 8x43 ED. I have to say I am impressed. All of those upgrades and really only a $40 price increase with the new promotion.

Short of keeping the price the same (a bit unrealistic) then what else could you ask for?

 

[CLRobles]

The attraction for the Chinese ED is their optical image vs price. Having said that they are not cheaply made. The have the feel of binoculars in the Pentax SP, Vortex Viper or Vortex Razor class of binocular. There is perhaps not quite the same feel as the alpha, but there is nothing to put me off from them either.

For me when I can get that image for $360 in a binocular that has every appearance of being quite robust enough to stand up to the usual use, I have no particular expectation of indestructibility.

Besides that ultimate ergonomic feel is pretty much decided on an individual basis.

I think they are better optically than the ten year old alphas. They are in some respects better optically than any current alpha. Sounds like heresy to many, but you sort of have to see it for yourself.

I'm sure your right but its just so hard for me to believe! I remember the first time my optics let me down. It was on a hunt and I brought a new pair of Leupold WindRiver 8x32's. At that time they were the top of the line for leupold but I kind of knew that I was not bringing the right glass. Anyway, I learned a hard lesson on good optics and it has stayed with me ever sense. Now I'm not wealthy by any standards but I will save for months to buy good glass and I have a pretty good collection going. I for some reason feel the need to keep buying high-end optics and will replace some that I sold off and just miss. But its just so difficult to believe that the Chinese in such a short period of time can compete with optic firms that have been around for almost 100 years? I just find it so hard to believe that they have that same R&D? I'm not sure if Vortex is Chinese but I know they don't compete! They are good! Actually really good for the price but not as good as say an older Docter Aspheric or Swaro SLC.... There just not! So as you say I'm going to have to find some of these newer Chinese HD's and compare them with my current lot. The biggest problem is where in the heck do I find them in Albuquerque, NM? I have a hard time finding good Nikons here! haha

 

[SPARTACVS]

I'm sure your right but its just so hard for me to believe! I remember the first time my optics let me down. It was on a hunt and I brought a new pair of Leupold WindRiver 8x32's. At that time they were the top of the line for leupold but I kind of knew that I was not bringing the right glass. Anyway, I learned a hard lesson on good optics and it has stayed with me ever sense. Now I'm not wealthy by any standards but I will save for months to buy good glass and I have a pretty good collection going. I for some reason feel the need to keep buying high-end optics and will replace some that I sold off and just miss. But its just so difficult to believe that the Chinese in such a short period of time can compete with optic firms that have been around for almost 100 years? I just find it so hard to believe that they have that same R&D? I'm not sure if Vortex is Chinese but I know they don't compete! They are good! Actually really good for the price but not as good as say an older Docter Aspheric or Swaro SLC.... There just not! So as you say I'm going to have to find some of these newer Chinese HD's and compare them with my current lot. The biggest problem is where in the heck do I find them in Albuquerque, NM? I have a hard time finding good Nikons here! haha

Well, according to peoples here, optically they are excellent. Technically they are good, which is not excellent nor bad. But your comment remain about the real quality of the product. So far, I haven't read many real problems except one or two QC problem and some accessories average design and quality. But long term is the real test. Does Zen-Ray owners are going to have more problems than higher priced binoculars owners? Time will tell.

 

[Steve C]

I'm sure your right but its just so hard for me to believe! I remember the first time my optics let me down. It was on a hunt and I brought a new pair of Leupold WindRiver 8x32's.

That is a typical and rather understandable reaction. When I first came across the Promaster ELX ED version (which actually predated the ZEN ED) I had no particular expectation. It was part of a dealer review process on another forum and the binoculars were lent out as unmarked samples so nobody knew who made them or what they cost.

Let me just say this, that it will likely not take long before you realize are dealing with the likes of what you have not seen before. The optics for the price really has to be seen for yourself. I really do not expect anyone to simply take my word for it. But in all of the posts in all of the forums where these have showed up, the only negatives that come up is that they are not alphas and therefore they are cheap unworthy junk. In some instances, it is hard to say whether the reaction is nauseating or downright funny. It is completely obvious that the person wailing in protest has not looked at one, has no intention of looking at one, and it would do them no good to look because they already "know".

I have seen not a single post that says "I bought a Zen Ray and didn't like it". Just try to retain some objectivity and use your observational skills and let your eyes tell you the story.

 

[Kevin Purcell]

CLRobles: Search for mystery bin in these forums to see more of the history of the Chinese EDs. The thread was about a year ago. One of the few examples of a blind test of a bin.