7x50 advice (1 Viewer)

[CharleyBird]

Have been looking to buy a third decent set of bins as I often have my two daughters with me, but something I can also use on a dark, windy night.

Looking at quality 7x50 porros, which would you choose and why?
I realise these will not be much used amongst birders, but any advice or comment on the following would be very welcome, as would any other value-for-money suggestions?

Zeiss
http://www.swoptics.co.uk/view.asp?KEY=1548

Miyauchi
http://www.bigbinoculars.com/m750w.htm
http://www.holgermerlitz.de/miyauchi7x50.html

Fujinon
http://www.monkoptics.co.uk/Astronomy/Fuji_7x50fmt.html

Nikon
http://www.microglobe.co.uk/catalog...x50-waterproof-fogproof-porro-prism-binocular

Steiner
http://www.microglobe.co.uk/catalog...einer-binoculars-steiner-commander-binoculars


Regards

Andy

 

[RJM]

The BEST 7x50 porro in production now is the Nikon 7x50 SP Prostar.

cheers,
Rick

 

[henry link]

I don't think the Miyauchi is still available.

What makes the Prostar so superior, even after 25 years in production, is an eyepiece design that corrects both field curvature and astigmatism. That really does make the edge of the field very nearly as sharp as the center.

Why do you want a heavy, individual focus binocular? They're a pain to carry and cumbersome to use.

 

[ceasar]

If I was serious about Binocular Astronomy, I would stick with Porros. But if I wasn't and if I was going to pay that much money I'd consider a Meopta 7 x 42 Roof Prism first. It is much lighter than the Porro's listed, more compact and easier to use. It has Center Focusing and is Waterproof. I don't think I would notice that much difference between a 6mm exit pupil and a 7mm exit pupil.
Bob

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/meopta/meopta-meostar-7x42-binocular

 

[ronh]

Of the list of candidates, I have only tried the Fujinon, which I have owned for about five years. It may not be the best, but is certainly very good, having been proven by years of good reputation in the shipping and commercial fishing industries, and as the de facto standard astronomy workhorse.

I have a Zeiss FL, and other alpha roofs to compare to, and still find the view in the 7x50 FMT positively thrilling. I love to split double stars as close as I can go with it, images are that good. It is so sharp that it is in fact annoyingly critical to focus, and I find that 0.1 diopter precision is necessary to get the best view of stars, and my eyes change more than that from night to night. This is in marked contrast to its daytime impression of having the largest depth of field that I have seen in any binocular, which is probably telling a lot about the difference between the daytime and nighttime vision, since I don't think the binocular really knows what time it is! I'd use it more in the daytime, but it is just too big and clunky. It goes a bit deeper than my Zeiss 8x42 FL for me, but that is largely a matter of how much of the 7mm exit pupil your eyes can actually can take in.

Ron

 

[Kevin Conville]

My thoughts are similar to Ron's. Of the ones you are considering, I've only used the Fujinons. I have also read at various times that the Nikons are the ne plus ultra but I have to say the Fujinons are spectacular -and- much less expensive. I can't imagine anyone being disappointed in the view through the Fujis. As a group, they are quite big and clunky however and some don't get on well with individual focus for daylight use.

 

[Pinewood]

. I can't imagine anyone being disappointed in the view through the Fujis.

Hello Kevin,

I found that the Fujinon had some truly disturbing distortions for terrestrial use. Buildings looked like they were falling backwards. I bought a Zeiss 7x50 BGAT*, instead.

Happy observing,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

 

[Kevin Conville]

I found that the Fujinon had some truly disturbing distortions for terrestrial use. Buildings looked like they were falling backwards. I bought a Zeiss 7x50 BGAT*, instead.

Interesting Arthur, good to know. I had not noticed that issue, but then again I don't own a pair of them either. A friend has a pair and I've used them a few times. I do own 16x70 FMT-SX and 6x30 AR-SX and neither of them exhibit noticeable distortion. The 6x30 clearly being the closest in configuration to the 7x50s we're talking about but without the field flattening element.

I'll look for that distortion next time I use his.

 

[ronh]

Better than looking like they're falling over on top of you!

Arthur is right, though, there's not enough pincushion distortion in the Fujinon to compensate for the "rolling globe" effect.
Ron

 

[falcondude]

I have seen some good reviews on Vixen Forresta 7x50.

 

[CharleyBird]

Wow that's a lot of information, thanks.

So there's agreement that the Nikon have the best image, that's what it's ultimately all about. But how do the slightly lighter Zeiss measure up for image and ergonomics I wonder?

Henry, may I ask do you use your Nikons much, or have your FL 8x56 roofs made them redundant?
The Miyauchi have a wide field of view according to the specs, but according to the review article is beaten on image by the Fujinon. Both these are much cheaper than the previous two mentioned, so you wouldn't expect the same quality, but if they are big and chunky to use, the Nikons are heavier. I think my daughter's may like Miyauchi's for the bling factor, but not the weight.
I found the Vixen here
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=108-110-647-771-773-10641&kw=&st=0
Lighter, central focus and much cheaper. Interesting.
On paper the Steiner look quite ergonomic, light, close focus under 10ft, question is whether the XP optics are anything as good as the 8/10x44XP.

I may have to try a few of these on approval if it's possible.



Cheers

Andy

 

[henry link]

Henry, may I ask do you use your Nikons much, or have your FL 8x56 roofs made them redundant?

Andy,

I hardly ever use the Nikons. I keep them around as a "best of type" reference, especially for the spectacular off-axis performance.

Now that you mention it, if you're set your sights on a big heavy 7mm exit pupil binocular I think the 8x56 FL is much more useful than any of these IF 7x50's. It's lighter, center focus and has about the same real FOV. It's almost the only binocular I use now, unless I want something much bigger (18x70) or much lighter (8x30/32).

Henry

 

[BobinKy]

I second the recommendation for the Vixen Foresta center focus 7x50.

Here is a nontechnical comparison: 7x50--Vixen Foresta CF Meets Fujinon FMT-SX IF

...Bob
Kentucky, USA

 

[CharleyBird]

Loved the HarperHyperDrive. This may be an dumb question, but why do none the porros I'm considering have CF?

Henry, you seem to have rationalised binoculars the way I did my old Olympus camera lens system. I had pretty much all the lenses, but unless I was going to do micro photography (135mm with tripod etc) used to carry only three. 24shift, 50 f1.2, and 180 f2.8.
Yes I have my heart set on an easy to use 7mm exit pupil. After using my Steiners last night in the orangey London glow(must say they are excellent), I realisd the nub of my questioning is:
Ergonomics aside, which binocular of at least 7x magnification gives the best image results in near darkness?
Nikon 7x50 or Zeiss 8x56 or...?


Anyone know why the Royal Navy choose to use the Zeiss 7x50?


Regards

Andy

 

[RJM]

At equal exit pupils, more magnification at larger apertures will always reveal more detail in dark to near dark lighting. That is the essence of the Twilight Factor specification. So a 8x56 is better than a 7x50 and a 9x63 is better than a 8x56 while a 10x70 is better still.

cheers,
Rick

 

[CharleyBird]

So do, for example, the Nikon 10x70 astrolux provide the best image of any hand-holdable bins for night work? But they are really too heavy at 2kg, nearest focus is 80 feet, and there is a narrow field of view?

Is this why HMRoyal Navy use the Zeiss 7x50...best compromise

 

[normjackson]

Is this why HMRoyal Navy use the Zeiss 7x50...best compromise

Maybe they can't afford these then?
http://www.monkoptics.co.uk/Fuji/night-vision-binoculars.html

 

[RJM]

So do, for example, the Nikon 10x70 astrolux provide the best image of any hand-holdable bins for night work?

I think the Canon 18x50mm IS might hold this crown if you base the choice on the Twilight Factor or the so-called Adler Index.

Twilight Factor
sqrt(10x70)=26.46
sqrt(18x50)=30

Adler Index
10xsqrt(70)=83.67
18xsqrt(50)=127.28

cheers,
Rick

 

[ceasar]

Too bad Carton is no longer in business.(AFAIK) They made a really nice, lighter weight, 7 x 50 CF Porro back in the 90's.
Bob

 

[FrankD]

If I was serious about Binocular Astronomy, I would stick with Porros. But if I wasn't and if I was going to pay that much money I'd consider a Meopta 7 x 42 Roof Prism first. It is much lighter than the Porro's listed, more compact and easier to use. It has Center Focusing and is Waterproof. I don't think I would notice that much difference between a 6mm exit pupil and a 7mm exit pupil.
Bob

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/meopta/meopta-meostar-7x42-binocular

Though seldom mentioned, keep in mind that Meopta also does make a 7x50 Meostar if the 7 mm exit pupil is that important. I have never tried it but if the edge performance is as impressive as the 8x56 then I would certainly recommend it.