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New Swarovski EL? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter kristoffer
- Start date
brocknroller
porromaniac
Rick,
I hope you're wrong about the Swarovision materials costing the same as the Swift 820 ED, because for a flagship bin, I found the construction of the 820 Swift was pretty shoddy and the eyecups were not only very uncomfortable, but cheaply made.
Some paint peeled off on my sample and the focus bridge flexed. The black color on the focus rack and on the frame where different colors - matte and gloss, respectively.
On the non-ED model (which has a putrid color), the "skin" is so thin, I could see the "skeleton" below it.
The build quality was more like Chinese take out than Shinshu premium beef.
Not up to par with Nikon's Japanese made bins, IMO, even though the price of the ED model is about the same as the Nikon 8x32 SE (except for Amazon's price).
However, the optical quality of the 820s was excellent.
So I don't think you would be wrong to say that the new EL won't be 900% better optically than the Swift ED, it won't, but hopefully it will have a much better build quality than the Swift.
The EL is made in Austria, which has the second highest cost of living in Europe so labor rather than materials might eat up the biggest chunk of the production costs.
I did a parody about this awhile back, which humorously suggested that it's almost as if the Big Three are an optics cartel and got together to fix prices.
I think it's also a safe bet that the materials used in the top four roofs don't all cost the same even though the finished products are selling for mooreorless the same price.
Leica is driving the pricing. The more Leica raises their prices, the more pressured the other three feel to raise their prices too, lest they should be perceived as not being quite on par.
As I've said, many times, many ways... I think users are getting to the point of diminishing returns, with alpha companies charging more and more for incremental improvements.
As long as there are consumers who dream about the "new and improved" models and have the money to make those dreams come true, they will pay whatever those companies charge.
However, I predict that if the the Big Three (or Four) continue to raise the price of their top bins rather than outsource their manufacture to other countries to help keep prices stable, they will eventually hit a "ceiling" beyond which they are going to see diminishing returns themselves (in terms of sales).
At that point, second tier bins either by those companies or others will become the "premium lines" and the ultra-luxury lines will become the "Rolls Royces" of optics.
We are already beginning to see this happen.
That won't necessarily hurt the European companies any more than Rolls Royce is hurt by Mercedes and Lexus outselling them because they will get more money per sale.
Brockadamus
Last edited:
tonimaroni
Well-known member
First test of Swarvision
Yesterday I had the opportunity to test the new Swarovski EL at my local dealer in Germany.
First Impression: The picture is an advantage compared to the old EL.
Very, very annoying: The rolling ball effect.
IMO this is really an issue for birder.
Yesterday I had the opportunity to test the new Swarovski EL at my local dealer in Germany.
First Impression: The picture is an advantage compared to the old EL.
Very, very annoying: The rolling ball effect.
IMO this is really an issue for birder.
LOL! Here´s a version sung by Captain Sensible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsJIHhXEjno
It may well do, but curiously, now that I have sold my "old" EL´s, and have no roofs, my EII´s and I are spending a suspicious amount of time together....it could be the start of a beautiful friendship.
You don´t dream about your saws? You don´t know what you´re missing. Some of my best dreams are about using one of these...
http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15523
to cut out little binocular-shapes in plywood.......
brocknroller
porromaniac
It is just an odd coincidence that Nikon's first roof with field flatterners exhibited the same property?
I'm beginning to suspect Swaro took the optics out of the Nikon Premier, re-engineered them with .5x more magnification and stuck them in the new EL.
I can't fathom why Swaro or Nikon would make binoculars for birders and hunters w/out adding pincushion for smooth panning.
A even greater mystery is why the new EDG doesn't have this issue even though Henry and other reviewers have reported the EDG has "no distortions at the edges of the field" "straight lines remain straight".
Despite this description, which is identical to how the LX/Premier LX L were described, the EDG is much improved in terms of smoothness in panning.
I file this one under the heading:
WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?
Fortunately for Nikon and Swaro, not everybody will be bothered by the "rolling ball," in fact, from what I've read, most people don't see "rolling ball" or see it but quickly adapt to it, so it will only be a deal killer for those who are sensitive to "rolling ball".
I'm sensitive to bins priced over $500 so this isn't even an issue for me.
arran
Well-known member
bird fair Belgium
Today I had the occasion to evaluate the new EL during low light conditions
in Western Flanders . All of the main bino supliers were present and were generous to give their bins to visitors in order to compare : some findings :
- swarovision : panning effect not relevant or detectable for me !
other viewers did not notice the effect at all.
the sales rep was however aware of the running remarks on this matter and stated that the effect is highly dependent on the person itself:
some people are bothered by it , others not.
- under very low light , I could compare Leica ultravid hd 10X42 with the
swarovison 10X42 : both gave brilliant contrast and resolution.
I found the leica more relaxing but in the end the swaro was brighter and could see more details under almost dark conditions.
the zeiss FL 10 X 42 scored very nice on CA correction however.
the presumed highest light transmissions of the fl were not detectable anymore at low light , where I found the swaro the best.
In my decision for a best personel 10 X 42 , I will definitely choose the swaro!
Today I had the occasion to evaluate the new EL during low light conditions
in Western Flanders . All of the main bino supliers were present and were generous to give their bins to visitors in order to compare : some findings :
- swarovision : panning effect not relevant or detectable for me !
other viewers did not notice the effect at all.
the sales rep was however aware of the running remarks on this matter and stated that the effect is highly dependent on the person itself:
some people are bothered by it , others not.
- under very low light , I could compare Leica ultravid hd 10X42 with the
swarovison 10X42 : both gave brilliant contrast and resolution.
I found the leica more relaxing but in the end the swaro was brighter and could see more details under almost dark conditions.
the zeiss FL 10 X 42 scored very nice on CA correction however.
the presumed highest light transmissions of the fl were not detectable anymore at low light , where I found the swaro the best.
In my decision for a best personel 10 X 42 , I will definitely choose the swaro!
brocknroller
porromaniac
Thanks for that three-way comparison.
Why do you think you found the Leica more "relaxing"?
Also, why is low light performance important to you?
I recently read a three-way comparison that included the Nikon EDG and the FL and HD (didn't bookmark it! I'll have to look for it again).
The reviewers said that although the Nikon didn't appear to be brighter in daylight, as light levels fell, it bested the other two in low light resolution much to their surprise. Like you, they expected the FL to win out.
By "definitely choose" do you mean that after comparing the Big Three, you are willing to pay 1,933.86 EUR for the new EL?
ClayTaylorTX
Well-known member
Hi all -
I finally have the ability to log onto BF and have the posts go through our server. It's good to be back. DigiscopingBirds is next...
Anyway, the new EL Swarovision will be retail priced in the US at $2339 for the 8.5x42 and $2479 for the 10x42. This is WAY less than the original prices that were going to be offered had they been introduced in late 2008 (EU) and early 2009 (USA). You-all can thank the global economic downturn for that belt-tightening.
Now, had the original ELs been continued into 2010, in the US the prices would have been $2015 and $2145, respectively. That's the effect of the Dollar vs. the Euro.
So, consider that with the New EL Swarovision vs. the Old EL, you are getting longer Eye Relief, wider Field of View, dramatically better edge sharpness, much closer focus, right-eye +/- 5 diopter settings, a full - 6 diopter past-infinity focus point, a focusing wheel that goes from infinity to 16 ft in 1/2 turn, from infinity to 8ft in 1 full turn, lighter weight AND better ergonomics, that price increase of roughly $300 is certainly justified. Amortize that over owning the binocular for 20 years, and you just spent less than $20 / year for all those "upgrades".
I personally have one of each binocular (perks of the job, naturally) and I have just replaced my 8x32 EL "carry binocular" (the one that travels in my briefcase wherever I go) with the 8.5x42 New EL. I now have to give it a good workout against my 8x56 SLC
to see if it wins the hawkwatching / seawatching duty, too.
Clay Taylor
Naturalist Market Manager
Swarovski Optik N.A.
Calallen (Corpus Christi) TX
I finally have the ability to log onto BF and have the posts go through our server. It's good to be back. DigiscopingBirds is next...
Anyway, the new EL Swarovision will be retail priced in the US at $2339 for the 8.5x42 and $2479 for the 10x42. This is WAY less than the original prices that were going to be offered had they been introduced in late 2008 (EU) and early 2009 (USA). You-all can thank the global economic downturn for that belt-tightening.
Now, had the original ELs been continued into 2010, in the US the prices would have been $2015 and $2145, respectively. That's the effect of the Dollar vs. the Euro.
So, consider that with the New EL Swarovision vs. the Old EL, you are getting longer Eye Relief, wider Field of View, dramatically better edge sharpness, much closer focus, right-eye +/- 5 diopter settings, a full - 6 diopter past-infinity focus point, a focusing wheel that goes from infinity to 16 ft in 1/2 turn, from infinity to 8ft in 1 full turn, lighter weight AND better ergonomics, that price increase of roughly $300 is certainly justified. Amortize that over owning the binocular for 20 years, and you just spent less than $20 / year for all those "upgrades".
I personally have one of each binocular (perks of the job, naturally) and I have just replaced my 8x32 EL "carry binocular" (the one that travels in my briefcase wherever I go) with the 8.5x42 New EL. I now have to give it a good workout against my 8x56 SLC
to see if it wins the hawkwatching / seawatching duty, too.
Clay Taylor
Naturalist Market Manager
Swarovski Optik N.A.
Calallen (Corpus Christi) TX
matt green
Norfolkman gone walkabout
Is there likely to be a 8x32 swarovsion model?
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but this thread is quite long!!!
Matt
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but this thread is quite long!!!
Matt
kristoffer
Used Register
brocknroller
porromaniac
Hopefully, for the "rolling ballers" among us, Swaro will not use the same EP design as it did in the full sized ELs.
The full sized Nikon LX/LX L series have severe "rolling ball" (except for those who are immune to it - I'm still waiting for the vaccine) but the midsized models do not. So it is possible to use a different EP design for the midsized models and eliminate or at least greatly reduce the "rolling ball".
I also hope Swaro gives the 32mm EL more ER even if they have to reduce the FOV to 7.5* to achieve this. 15mm ER is too short for many eyeglass wearers (and that's just the listed figure, the usable ER is probably 3-5mm less).
If Celestron could make an 8x32 with a listed 20mm ER (Noble) for less than $300, which was rated best in usable ER out of a dozen 8x32 and 10x32 bins by a group of reviewers including Diane and Micheal Porter in the January 2005 issue of Bird Watcher's Digest, Swaro should be able to pull that off today in a $2K bin, which is probably what a SV 8x32 EL will cost - at least.
To put a twist on Sagan's famous saying: Extraordinary prices require extraordinary features.
Ingle1970
Well-known member
i sent an e-mail to swarovski asking the same and the reply was ;
"The new EL are due to start dispatching from the middle of Jan 10".
Pre-orders shipped out to us yesterday, so some folks will have them in their hands early next week. I'm looking forward to hearing the feedback. I'm at the tipping point of ordering one myself, just need to sell a motorcycle and buy a new fridge first :C
Ben
Ben Lizdas
Sales Manager
Eagle Optics
www.eagleoptics.com
Muffin Top
Member
Just read the whole thread in one sitting (do I win a prize?!). I used to think C&A was a rather effeminate retailer in the UK, how little I knew, what a learned and amusing bunch you lot are! I called a popular UK dealer a couple of days ago about the new EL's. They were expecting just one of each model in the next 1-2 weeks, but couldn't give a date. I'll have to test them ASAP and assuming I don't get any of these horrendous and no doubt contagious diseases of the eye or groin area I might have to go for it. As for affording them, it's new carpets vs new bins.... (but who would win?.....There's only one way to find out......)
Ps. Have any of the testers tried walking or running while focused on their feet? Surely this is the best judge of potential aberations and definately my nomiation for the 2012 Olympics, failing that the 2010 British Birdwatching Fair. Seriously though please keep the reviews & comparisons coming it's really helpful stuff.
Ps. Have any of the testers tried walking or running while focused on their feet? Surely this is the best judge of potential aberations and definately my nomiation for the 2012 Olympics, failing that the 2010 British Birdwatching Fair. Seriously though please keep the reviews & comparisons coming it's really helpful stuff.
brocknroller
porromaniac
I would not recommend running while using binoculars, particularly in a house with no carpets.
Alexis Powell
Natural history enthusiast
The new 8.5x42 EL has both longer eye-relief and a wider view than the original, so we can hope for the same from an 8x32
Actually, the usable eye-relief on the 8x32 EL is quite close to what is claimed, and is superior to the 16mm claimed for many lesser bins. In my experience, the eye-relief specs given by Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski, and Nikon tend to be more accurate than those of others (especially, in my experience, Swift and Bushnell).
--AP
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