Nightjar Lamping (1 Viewer)

[Johann Sebastian Bach]

Unacceptable behaviour anywhere, including Africa. I agree that a very bad example was set and that you might consider Jos's suggestion of contacting the group concerned.
I've tried the other trick from yesteryear, doffing a hat at intervals to reveal a shock of white hair. I've never had any success with this - but I'm now lucky enough to live within a few hundred yards of a regular nest-site.
(No smiley for smug grin, unfortunately.)

Peter

 

[Himalaya]

I hope that I would never even treat common British birds like Blackbirds or Magpies like this let alone something which is sa threatened bird!

Out of curiosity why are nt Nightjars Schedule 1?

 

[Jacana]

I hope that I would never even treat common British birds like Blackbirds or Magpies like this let alone something which is sa threatened bird!

Out of curiosity why are nt Nightjars Schedule 1?

Looking at the list most species are rare breeders (e.g. Bluethroat, Icterine Warbler & Purple Sandpiper); range restricted breeders (e.g. Cirl Bunting, Scottish stuff & Chough); raptors & owls and formerly rare breeders that would probably not be classified if the system was introduced today (e.g. Avocet, Cetti's Warbler & Mediterranean Gull).

I suppose Nightjars don't quite fit into any of those categories.

 

[Gill Osborne]

I agree.. get into position before dusk, and your eyes adapt to the falling light quite well. You can still see quite a bit as it goes dark.. Until someone shines a torch the equivalent of a Lighthouse bulb in your face

And often, believe it or not, you have to make do with "heard only", or just insect bites.
Is this the problem these days.. that everyone expects point blank, BBC Natural wonders in HD, Wildlife photographer of the year quality, everytime they go outside ?

I went on a nightjar watch a few years ago (organised by a few BF members) and we were taken to a good spot where the bird liked to perch and we just stood and waited as it got dark. As the light fell and the churring started it was just sheer magic! :king: We saw a couple of birds fly by within feet of us (about a dozen or so people) and had no need of torches or other forms of lighting.

I would be making a VERY stiff complaint to the group as behaviour like this is completely unacceptable! The bird's welfare comes first and foremost. So what if we don't get a close up view of the bird! As has already been said a few of today's birders seem to be so impatient and just expect everything handed to them on a plate without putting in the effort and fieldwork and, often, having to accept that sometimes the birds just ain't gonna show :smoke: I'm having a bit of a *losing* battle with my local cuckoos at the moment....they're showing/calling well to everyone except me!!! :-O I was out from 5.30pm until 10.30pm last night *don't tell hubby!!!* and still dipped on cuckoo and grasshopper warbler but DID see two fabulous barn owls which made up for it.

 

[Tideliner]

This is an unacceptable pratice and possibly dammaging. With very powerful lamps above 1\2 million C power there may be an issue with eye retina dammage to the birds. At the very least there will be short term dazzle effects. I use such a lamp ( with an infra red filter for deer survey work ) and there is a warning on the box not to look directly into the beam without a filter because of potential human eye dammage.

 

[GazH]

Putting ANY breeding bird under pressure from using lamps to view them could cause harm, maybe not immediately, but it may cause the adult birds to not use that nesting area the following year. Other nearby breeding birds could also be disturbed.

All Schedule 1 breeding birds and any known ‘sensitive species’ are one and the same to me. An example being the Nightingale (not a schedule 1 species) which are also sensitive and prone to deserting breeding habitat through disturbance and many of them often get disturbed by photographers looking to get that ‘classic’ image. This would be frowned upon by most birders and so to should any disturbance by lamps of Nightjar.

Those who were using lamps to view these birds really need to re-think about how they view Nightjars at dusk and after dark in future. Is it really important to see the bird in a spotlight? I personally like to see that dark shadow against a darkening skyline with the addition of ‘churring’ and ‘wing clapping’ sounds thrown in.

In my opinion Deseo should address his own concerns by contacting the group/individuals/landowners to ask them to refrain from using lamps on known Nightjar breeding territory.

 

[Deseo]

I have sent an email to the National Trust, whose land this took place on. I will let you know the outcome. Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Himalaya]

Not all species that are on schedule 1 - ie Hobby, little Ringed Plover....both success stories...are all raptors on it?

Judging how much the range of the Nightjar has contracted does it not get schedule 1 protection?

Looking at the list most species are rare breeders (e.g. Bluethroat, Icterine Warbler & Purple Sandpiper); range restricted breeders (e.g. Cirl Bunting, Scottish stuff & Chough); raptors & owls and formerly rare breeders that would probably not be classified if the system was introduced today (e.g. Avocet, Cetti's Warbler & Mediterranean Gull).

I suppose Nightjars don't quite fit into any of those categories.

 

[Idle Valley Birder]

<big snip> Those who were using lamps to view these birds really need to re-think about how they view Nightjars at dusk and after dark in future. Is it really important to see the bird in a spotlight? .

NO! Is the simple answer Gaz but what do you mean by re-think? The perpetrator obviously thought about his/her actions before doing it and obviously does not care.

 

[Jacana]

Schedule 1 bird list here:

http://www.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/policy/wildbirdslaw/birdsandlaw/wca/schedules.aspx As far as I can tell all breeding raptors are on it. Little Ringed Plover would be on there due to it's formerly restricted range and never taken off... Maybe Nightjar should be on there, I don't know enough about the criteria to make a judgement.

 

[Idle Valley Birder]

<snip>Schedule 1 <snip>Maybe Nightjar should be on there, I don't know.

Does it matter if the species is 'Schedule 1'. Lamping any breeding birds for pleasure has got to be wrong.

 

[Tarsiger]

The problem here again is to do with double-standards. Personally I've never lamped anything other than a Temminck's Stint (inadvertantly) and a large herd of African Buffalo!! I did not need to resort to 'luring and lamping' Nightjars on a recent walk I led.
However, I did benefit from others 'lamping and luring' a Red-necked Nightjar (the only one I've ever seen) abroad along with a number of other 'paying clients'. Several other Nightjars/Nighthawks/Pauraques have been 'illuminated' by car headlights and spotlamps
over the years in various counties and I would guess there maybe other similar situations that I've forgotten over the years.
I wonder whether other countries would condemn tape-luring or lamping solely for the non-scientific benefit of birders; do we all assume that its OK abroad?
Do we all all let our standards slip as soon as we get on that flight abroad?

 

[angusmcoatup]

The problem here again is to do with double-standards. Personally I've never lamped anything other than a Temminck's Stint (inadvertantly) and a large herd of African Buffalo!! I did not need to resort to 'luring and lamping' Nightjars on a recent walk I led.
However, I did benefit from others 'lamping and luring' a Red-necked Nightjar (the only one I've ever seen) abroad along with a number of other 'paying clients'. Several other Nightjars/Nighthawks/Pauraques have been 'illuminated' by car headlights and spotlamps
over the years in various counties and I would guess there maybe other similar situations that I've forgotten over the years.
I wonder whether other countries would condemn tape-luring or lamping solely for the non-scientific benefit of birders; do we all assume that its OK abroad?
Do we all all let our standards slip as soon as we get on that flight abroad?

Whose double standards?

 

[njlarsen]

I think the ethical questions raised in this thread are both interesting and important. In a number of places, nightjars tend to use roads as resting places from which they can take off and capture insects seen in silhouette against the sky - I have seen several nightjar/nighthawk species by driving along such roads both by intent and as random observations. I have also seen some owl species in spotlight, but in at least one occasion, seen an owl come to strongly lit spot simply to catch the insects attracted to that light; so I think examples must be considered individually on their own merits.

In many cases, the need/wish for spotlight would fade if more people were satisfied with just hearing a species (and those interested in ticks would tick of the species based on hearing them).

I think going into tape luring in this thread will be taking the thread to far astray, there have been/will be other threads for that.

Niels

 

[Tarsiger]

Whose double standards?

Those many people who have a more 'relaxed' approach to these matters when away from the gazillions of birders and photographers in the UK.
Hats off to everyone reading who apply the UK 'rules' in ALL circumstances abroad.
Russ

 

[Tarsiger]

I think going into tape luring in this thread will be taking the thread to far astray, there have been/will be other threads for that.

Niels

Sorry- no intention of reigniting that one; but then again disturbance is disturbance.
Russ

 

[Jacana]

Does it matter if the species is 'Schedule 1'. Lamping any breeding birds for pleasure has got to be wrong.

Certainly. I wasn't commenting on whether it was right or wrong, just what was on the list.

 

[stevo]

Does it matter if the species is 'Schedule 1'. Lamping any breeding birds for pleasure has got to be wrong.

It is wrong & all birds are covered by the wildlife & coutryside act.

Steve.B

 

[GraemeS]

I'm very much a beginner in all this and I'm learning what is and isn't reasonable as I go along. I have on one occasion used a torch to illuminate an owl, but not chased it.

A lot of this thread has been condemning lamping breeding birds, with some focus on Schedule 1. The original post talked about people chasing the birds around the clearing.
So, my questions (relating to bird watching, not scientific study etc):

1) are there occasions when using a lamp to observe birds is acceptable?
2) What are these occasions?
3) Would a low power lamp be acceptable?

 

[Socar MYLES]

I don't know if there's a universal standard for when/if it's acceptable to use a lamp to look at a bird. Myself, I don't turn on any extra lights, but if a light is already on, and a bird has come to investigate, I will take full advantage of that to get a photo of the bird (or just look at it, if it's one I've already photographed a lot).

Things I don't do: use my camera's flash on any bird (not sure if it's harmful, but it's probably annoying), point a light at a bird, follow a bird with a light source, et cetera. I always try not to advertise my presence, or do anything that might be irritating. (Well, apart from making "psst" noises, if a bird has already noticed me. But I think I'm doing that wrong; they never pay any attention.)

If you are birding anywhere in a city, there's probably enough light pollution that it's never truly dark, so even at night, you could see a bird. Probably, it's harder in a rural or heavily forested area; you'd probably have to go at sunset, before full dark.