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New high-tech whale harpoon (1 Viewer)

robhope

robhope

Well-known member
In the press today:

JAPANESE whalers are testing a hi-tech harpoon, equipped with an enlarged charge of high explosive, to help swiftly kill endangered whales in the seas around Antarctica.

The device is being tested in the slaughter of humpback and fin whales after Japan's decision to break with an international consensus to protect them.

The new weapon uses a "warhead" redesigned to penetrate the thickest layers of skin, blubber and bone. The body of the harpoon has also been redesigned, using research from battlefield weapons.

My question is how the rest of the world (except the other 'whaling' nations) can allow this barbaric activity to continue, especially in areas and on mammals that are supposed to be protected.:C


Robhope
Egrets I've had a few.
 
This is very interesting timing considering the latest news I've heard from certain activists in the Antarctic. Which is the Japanese, after just wounding a minke whale, will string it up by its flukes with its head submerged until it suffocates. (Whales don't drown; they will not open their blowholes underwater and so asphyxiate.) Talk about a barbaric way to die! Japan's rationale? It doesn't cause damage to the much-sought-after "better bits" of meat sold commercially in markets and restaurants as "sushi."

This sounds like a PR spin on Japan getting caught -- on video! -- hanging these whales in the water until dead, so they had to publicize a "swifter" and therefore, in their eyes, "more humane" method of killing whales.

I know the Bush Administration won't let my country do anything to stop Japan's whale kills on this or any other front. I sure hope other citizens and governments of the world can.
 
Thanks Rob for giving me another reason why I don't buy Japanese cars. I watch Toshiba 's TV and love my Canon cam I just won't drop $20,000 on their car.
Sam
 
The article also mentioned that the Japanese are having difficulty using all the whalemeat and are trying to develop/rebrand the product to increase consumption, especially in schools.

Robhope
Egrets I've had a few.
 
Yes, it is disgusting that the whales are being killed regardless of the method, but, in reality, what do you think we should be doing to stop it? Moral pressure is pretty useless. Armed intervention? Embargos? A trade war might not give the results we might like. It might work, I suppose. North America probably buys more from Japan than vice versa bnut then again what would happen to all of the workers at the Japanese car plants in North America? It's very frustrating.
 
Well, even though there are people who say economic sanctions don't work, they certainly have worked very well in the past. Even if the bottom line of some of these gargantuan umbrella companies isn't affected -- like Mitsubishi, for instance, who at one time owned outright or had interest in 29 whaling ships -- the negative publicity sticks. Back in the early '90s when we got Mitsubishi and Mexico to stop plans for building the world's largest evaporative saltworks on the last undeveloped gray whale calving lagoon in Mexico, people equated buying any Mitsubishi product with dead whales. The 1 million global signatures we collected and delivered to the government of Mexico and the head of Mitsubishi may have helped. ;)

I realize that under this umbrella there are Mitsubishi Motors, Mitsubishi Electric, and a host of other M-named companies, not to mention Union Bank of Southern California, Kirin Beer, and Nikon Camera are (or were -- I know this info is at least 10 years old) all wholly owned subsidiaries of the Mitsubishi giant -- several hundred companies, in fact -- that it seems well nigh impossible to make a dent. But it does work.

Basic economics: No market, no supply.
 
Katy Penland said:
Well, even though there are people who say economic sanctions don't work, they certainly have worked very well in the past. Even if the bottom line of some of these gargantuan umbrella companies isn't affected -- like Mitsubishi, for instance, who at one time owned outright or had interest in 29 whaling ships -- the negative publicity sticks. Back in the early '90s when we got Mitsubishi and Mexico to stop plans for building the world's largest evaporative saltworks on the last undeveloped gray whale calving lagoon in Mexico, people equated buying any Mitsubishi product with dead whales. The 1 million global signatures we collected and delivered to the government of Mexico and the head of Mitsubishi may have helped. ;)

I realize that under this umbrella there are Mitsubishi Motors, Mitsubishi Electric, and a host of other M-named companies, not to mention Union Bank of Southern California, Kirin Beer, and Nikon Camera are (or were -- I know this info is at least 10 years old) all wholly owned subsidiaries of the Mitsubishi giant -- several hundred companies, in fact -- that it seems well nigh impossible to make a dent. But it does work.

Basic economics: No market, no supply.
Click to expand...

In my view, economic sanctions and consumer boycotts are different things. Boycotts historically have been very effective. Economic sanctions generally seem to hurt the wrong people.
Remember too that in our present complex world Japanese companies own factories in the US and Canada and we could end up hurting our own people as well. I doubt if Mexico is as strong in foreign invwestment as Japan.
 
I have the greatest respect for the people in greenpeace and the job they are doing in bringing this issue to the public.

S. G.
 
snowyowl said:
In my view, economic sanctions and consumer boycotts are different things. Boycotts historically have been very effective. Economic sanctions generally seem to hurt the wrong people.
Click to expand...
I truly don't understand this rationale. I'm not picking on you, Dan, I have heard this before elsewhere. People are going to get the wrong end of the stick regardless, as boycotts target specific companies (usually) and sanctions target multiple companies. I don't believe (but I could be wrong) that any company has had to shut down factories and lay off workers due to boycotts or sanctions. Usually a taste of the bad publicity, or the threat of interrupted revenue, are enough to get them to change their minds before there's a negative impact to the profit margin.


Remember too that in our present complex world Japanese companies own factories in the US and Canada and we could end up hurting our own people as well.
Click to expand...
Our own people are already hurting, to the tune of tens of thousands this year alone with the GM shutdowns. Frankly, I wouldn't mind if foreign manufacturers produced their goods in their own countries and were tariffed when exporting to the US. This is the best protection for US workers manufacturing US products. But that's another soapbox... ;)

But how else are these companies from renegade countries like Japan to be brought to heel over breaking the law? I know our own government is not going to send a battle group to Antarctica or the northwest Pacific to protect whales, and Japan rejects all diplomatic instruments.


I doubt if Mexico is as strong in foreign invwestment as Japan.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're right, it's not nearly as wealthy a country as is Japan.
 
Economic sanctions are usually by governments against other countries rather against specific companies, boycotts by consumers are against companies or groups of companies. I definitely do not want to get in politics but in many cases the sanctions lead to the poor becoming poorer, the rich unchanged - Iraq.
Jobs migrate to the cheapest work force that has the skills to do the task - Canadian jobs moved to the US when NAFTA came on stream. Jobs moved from US to Mexico and India. As long as they still have market access, corporations have no national loyalty only loyalty to the bottom line.
Now I say this with trepidation so don't take it the wrong way, please. During the recent ban on PEI potatoes by the US many of us here refused to buy US potato products. Not enough of us to make an impact but at least we were hitting at the people who were hurting us not the poor beggar who didn't know anything about the problem, and because we were buying more local products as a result we were hepling to prevent the farmers from going under quite as quickly.
Sorry, this is way off of harpoons. Save the whales!
 
robhope said:
The article also mentioned that the Japanese are having difficulty using all the whalemeat and are trying to develop/rebrand the product to increase consumption, especially in schools.

Robhope
Egrets I've had a few.
Click to expand...

To sway away from all the talk about sanctions and boycotts the main thing is that, as mentioned above, I increasingly hear there isn't a market in japan for whalemeat. I understand that most Japanese do not eat it and it is not part of the culture of the great majority. Also I believe the general Japanese public are increasingly appreciating these marvellous animals alive in the wild more and more and even have their own whale watching expeditions.

If this is all true they are probably moving in the same way as Iceland in that whalewatching is becoming more of an ecotourist situation and earning appreciable amounts of capital. I guess (hope) that once income from whale watching exceeds the cost and income from hunting, hunting will slow down and stop in time to prevent extinctions.

Steve
 
All due respect, Steve, but Iceland just rejoined the IWC three years ago with an illegal objection to the hunting moratorium! (That was a disgusting if instructive lesson in skirting the ICRW -- where the Chair of the IWC allowed Iceland to vote for itself during an irregular [intersessional] meeting of the Commission even though it was not yet a member and even though a quorum of the members wasn't present! Anybody wants details of these shenanigans that took place in Cambridge, UK, I'll be happy to supply them.)

Iceland has already started its "scientific" program and intends to start commercial whaling. Hunting will not slow down until the minke whale is in the same vulnerable/threatened/endangered status as its larger whale cousins. In fact, that's the only reason these countries are hunting the small minke today is because it's the only species with numbers larger than those that have already been driven to the brink of extirpation or extinction. And because Japan has declared sperm, Bryde's, fin and humpback whales capable of being hunted, that's what they're killing in the northwest Pacific each year, in addition to minkes there and in the Southern Ocean Sanctuary.

Whalewatching is a growing business in many countries, but even though its revenues outpull whaling revenues in some instances, I can guarantee you that Japan, Norway and Iceland will not cease their whaling operations until their own governments -- or world pressure -- force the whaling to a halt. With Japan, it's a matter of "face." I don't know what Norway's justification is -- they can't unload their freezers now that are full of blubber they don't want and can't eat. And Iceland is the newest kid on the "scientific" and commercial whaling block. They've spent too much money to back down from getting their commercial program underway.
 
It seems as if each of the three countries named have their own reasons for whaling so it may need three different approachs to move them away from it (whaling). It sounds as if Japan may already be starting in that direction but speed is essential. Perhaps the process could be given a push if a large advertisng campaign were launched in Japan aimed at the Japanese. This sort of approach seems to work for most things and its non-confrontational. Reach the kids and general public and eventally the politicians would respond. How or who could fund such an effort I don't know. WWF? Sierra? Greenpeace? Perhaps a coalition helped with funding from concerned governments? Pie in the sky I suppose but I think that it might work if it were done.
 
Don't forget that, except for Iceland, Japan and Norway have been doing this for nearly 20 years. This isn't a new issue, and there have been many educational and publicity campaigns in both countries trying to bring about change, both via large international NGOs and coalitions of smaller, internal organizations. After what I've observed at the IWC, the best word that describes these countries' unwillingness to stop killing whales is pure intransigence.

I think that's one reason why I don't believe anything but economic sanctions will work with them. If they want to continue to stand outside international consensus and continue killing whales, then I say, fine -- and give them the isolation they apparently relish and stop trading with them.
 
s.g. said:
I have the greatest respect for the people in greenpeace and the job they are doing in bringing this issue to the public.

S. G.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more, S. G.
Great people doing a great job. They play a huge role in many eco-campaigns.
Sam
 
Raptors Rule said:
Couldn't agree more, S. G.
Great people doing a great job. They play a huge role in many eco-campaigns.
Sam
Click to expand...

I agree too. I've just rejoined, some quarters are using the new terror laws to shut them up, even deny them harbour, they need support.
 
There is also Sea Shepherd who are dedicated people. They do an amazing job in trying to protect marine life, often colluding with Greenpeace to try and disrupt whaling. Their website is full of information, I would recommend a look.
 
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