Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
Isn't 2012 about time for Cornell to do another scope review?
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Theron Zen Ray and Kowa Spotters (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Steve C
- Start date
Steve C
Well-known member
I hope one of the big scope review sites picks up the ball on all these new mid-priced scope options coming to market. There is no shortage of reviews comparing the "alphas" but my big questions are:
1) How much better is the current "bang for the buck" king (Vortex Razor HD) than the slightly lower priced newcomers like the Zen-Ray ED2 and Theron, and now the new Vortex Viper HD.
2) How do they compare the older "can't afford the alphas" sub-$1500 options like Pentax PF-80ED and Nikon Fieldscope 82mm ED.?
3) How much better are they than the current "low budget" favorites like Pentax PF-65ED and Celestron Regal F-ED?
The Vortex Viper HD is really intriguing, especially the 65mm at $549 right now from EO. If it can provide a step forward in quality at that price point for the budget-minded 65mm class that would be huge... I would also like to know how the Viper Viper HD 80mm at $799 compares to the Zen-Ray ED2....
At least those of us who can't afford $3k-4k for an Alpha are getting some better options
But Steve C -- thanks again for doing these comparisons, it's a huge help to the consumer. I know you can't keep buying scopes and testing them for us.... so now I just hope one of the big birding sites picks up the ball and does a full-fledged "mid-priced scope shoot-out" comparing all these $800-1500 options vs. an Alpha or two....
I've seen the Razor HD spotter and have the ZEN ED 2. Frankly I'd be surprised if there was much if any difference. Zen Ray, Vortex, Swarovski, and Kowa will be at the WInter WIngs festival this weekend, so maybe I can check further.
mayoayo
Well-known member
I remember lots of mentions about todays Chinese Optics industry being very much the same that Japan use to be...I wonder where is the equivalence with the japanese golden QC stickers with the word "PASSED" written on it.the stickers were issued by the Japanese telescope institute ..Was this an independent QC agency?..
Duelly noted
One of those words that spell check will miss and easily overlooked|:$|. Thanks for pointing it out.As far as quality control and bad samples, I don't think it is fair to lump all Chinese made scopes together and as far as I know the Avian and Theron type has not seen any major sample problems, as far as I have heard at least.
I have read about some others and it is a concern but usually the seller handles problem for the customer.
deltahogfan
Well-known member
Steve, on the focus adjustment. You prefer the dual focus compared to the helical focus and I can understand why. BUT, the helical focus does work and would not be the sole deciding factor on weather you would buy the Theron. Correct?
I am saving my coins to buy a good spotter this summer. And if Theron still has the 950 price when I buy, that is what I plan on buying. Getting tha 30x WA with the standard zoom is a very good deal. Especially at that price.
Pat at Theron is experimenting with useing standard 1.25 ep's. Contact him for details.
I am a machinist, so if I buy the Theron, first thing up will be to look at building an adapter to use standard 1.25 and 2" ep's.
I should add that I am looking forward to hear how good the new Vortex Viper spotters will be. Seems Vortex is building a good name for themselves.
I am saving my coins to buy a good spotter this summer. And if Theron still has the 950 price when I buy, that is what I plan on buying. Getting tha 30x WA with the standard zoom is a very good deal. Especially at that price.
Pat at Theron is experimenting with useing standard 1.25 ep's. Contact him for details.
I am a machinist, so if I buy the Theron, first thing up will be to look at building an adapter to use standard 1.25 and 2" ep's.
I should add that I am looking forward to hear how good the new Vortex Viper spotters will be. Seems Vortex is building a good name for themselves.
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deltahogfan
Well-known member
OK. Need some specs on spotter and ep's. Then will have to make prototype and see how it works.
Let me know what you think of the Mag82. Steve rated it up with the Zen Ray, which has been rated on par with the Razor, which is high praise indeed.
Steve C
Well-known member
The helical focus certainly works. Once a person used it enough it would probably become second nature. Also, the helical focus is easier to use with gloves. One thing about the Theron is the narrow fov. Any wobble from focus activity is really apparrent.
The Theron comes threaded for what looks like a standard 1.25" eye pieces. Evidently some adapters work and some don't. I can't say about that because I did not have any to use.
I wound up with the ZEN because of the focus arrangement and the wider fov of the ZEN ED eye piece. The Theron was tempting because of the 75x feature. Detail on focused objects was pretty much the same.
deltahogfan
Well-known member
.
The Theron comes threaded for what looks like a standard 1.25" eye pieces. Evidently some adapters work and some don't. I can't say about that because I did not have any to use.
Steve, according to Pat at Theron, they are not the same. He is experimenting with just slipping the 1.25 ep in and useing an o-ring. He stated that you have to be careful because if you tilt the spotter too much the ep could fall out.
Right now I am leang towards the Theron because of the price and they are throwing in a 30x wa ep. Have to see when I get my coins gathered up. Ain't there yet!
I AM glad we have these choices of very good optics in a price range that I can afford. Would love to have that Kowa, but I ain't got that kind of spending money.
Have you heard anything about the Viper spotters?
The Theron comes threaded for what looks like a standard 1.25" eye pieces. Evidently some adapters work and some don't. I can't say about that because I did not have any to use.
Steve, according to Pat at Theron, they are not the same. He is experimenting with just slipping the 1.25 ep in and useing an o-ring. He stated that you have to be careful because if you tilt the spotter too much the ep could fall out.
Right now I am leang towards the Theron because of the price and they are throwing in a 30x wa ep. Have to see when I get my coins gathered up. Ain't there yet!
I AM glad we have these choices of very good optics in a price range that I can afford. Would love to have that Kowa, but I ain't got that kind of spending money.
Have you heard anything about the Viper spotters?
FrankD
Well-known member
delta,
I have the adapter that came with the little Celestron. It fits the threads for the Theron Saker. I will see if it works with the Mag 82. If it does fit and if the eyepieces reach focus all the way out to infinity then we have a winner. I will try it out once the Mag 82 arrives. If it does work then finding out how to purchase that adapter from wherever it is sourced (Bosma maybe?) should be easy enough for Theron.
I have the adapter that came with the little Celestron. It fits the threads for the Theron Saker. I will see if it works with the Mag 82. If it does fit and if the eyepieces reach focus all the way out to infinity then we have a winner. I will try it out once the Mag 82 arrives. If it does work then finding out how to purchase that adapter from wherever it is sourced (Bosma maybe?) should be easy enough for Theron.
deltahogfan
Well-known member
That would be a quick and easy fix.
Steve C
Well-known member
Well, Pat is my source of info as well
. The Eye piece looks just like the Nikon Fieldscope eye pieces and the thread diameter measures 1.25". Some users had had difficulty with the EP threading in and others not . So try it and see and let us know.I have heard nothing about the Viper scopes.
Who knows, maybe the Celestron adapter will be the answer.
deltahogfan
Well-known member
Well, Pat is my source of info as well
I have heard nothing about the Viper scopes.
Who knows, maybe the Celestron adapter will be the answer.
It may be that the 1.25 is standard thread pitch and the Theron metric. Dunno without having both in hand. Sometimes you can find a metric and standard so close that they will work in each other. But more times than not, you will mess up the threads trying to make them work.
mayoayo
Well-known member
ZEN Eyepieces
Hello All..
I have now the ZEN ED scope with its Zoom,30X WA and adapter for "other" eyepieces..I say "other" eyepieces,because it is not an astro 1 1/4 adapter in the sense I expected...It would take astronomy eyepieces once the 1 1/4 barrel is removed from the eyepiece,and the right(I assume standard)threads are exposed...the adapter has the ZEN bayonet in one End and a thread in the other to accomodate the "Other" eyepieces..the interior diameter is 1 1/8,so not sure which eyepieces would or wouldnt fit..I was thinking that maybe Nikon thread would even fit there!..I am interested in trying some other eyepieces in this scope....
The ZEN 30XWA is a nice eyepiece,but doesnt look as dedicated to the scope as the ZEN ZOOM..I wrote ZOOM,because it is a ZOOOM..It is a large,impressive eyepiece,very well made and fit the excellent finish and quality build of the scope.It has good optics,and it is waterproof.It is also EXTREMELY bright at high power.
The 30XWA, seems,based on internet images that I have seen,identical or very similar to the Vortex Razor 30XWA..
It is a good eyepiece...I have seen and used ,similar,astronomical equivalents of this eyepiece...This one is better made,lightweight,Has excellent coatings ,its also waterproof and uses ED glass...and it offers a pleasant wide angle image,sharp and bright...I think is nice of ZEN to offer an option ready to go,but for optics nuts,maybe the most fun would be in finding out if there are better eyepieces for the scope ,at the best price..I am sure We will be discussing some Here...I think i have a Swarovski Habitch 30WW (old style)coming my way,so it will be a good one to compare and also to check how swaro bayonet fits the ZEN
Here are some images of the Eyepieces and adapter..
Hello All..
I have now the ZEN ED scope with its Zoom,30X WA and adapter for "other" eyepieces..I say "other" eyepieces,because it is not an astro 1 1/4 adapter in the sense I expected...It would take astronomy eyepieces once the 1 1/4 barrel is removed from the eyepiece,and the right(I assume standard)threads are exposed...the adapter has the ZEN bayonet in one End and a thread in the other to accomodate the "Other" eyepieces..the interior diameter is 1 1/8,so not sure which eyepieces would or wouldnt fit..I was thinking that maybe Nikon thread would even fit there!..I am interested in trying some other eyepieces in this scope....
The ZEN 30XWA is a nice eyepiece,but doesnt look as dedicated to the scope as the ZEN ZOOM..I wrote ZOOM,because it is a ZOOOM..It is a large,impressive eyepiece,very well made and fit the excellent finish and quality build of the scope.It has good optics,and it is waterproof.It is also EXTREMELY bright at high power.
The 30XWA, seems,based on internet images that I have seen,identical or very similar to the Vortex Razor 30XWA..
It is a good eyepiece...I have seen and used ,similar,astronomical equivalents of this eyepiece...This one is better made,lightweight,Has excellent coatings ,its also waterproof and uses ED glass...and it offers a pleasant wide angle image,sharp and bright...I think is nice of ZEN to offer an option ready to go,but for optics nuts,maybe the most fun would be in finding out if there are better eyepieces for the scope ,at the best price..I am sure We will be discussing some Here...I think i have a Swarovski Habitch 30WW (old style)coming my way,so it will be a good one to compare and also to check how swaro bayonet fits the ZEN
Here are some images of the Eyepieces and adapter..
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henry link
Well-known member
mayoayo,
I have these same Zen-Ray items on hand now for the purpose of writing a review which I hope to have finished in a week or two.
I agree that the zoom eyepiece is excellent, as it should be since it's a faithful copy of the current Swarovski 20-60x zoom. The 30x eyepiece is essentially identical to the eyepiece used on the Nikon SE series binoculars. I have a current Swarovski 30x eyepiece which is a completely different animal from the Zen-Ray 30x. Yes, the Swaro does fit the Zen-Ray scope despite some very small differences in the dimensions of the bayonet mounts (I should mention that Charles at Zen-Ray recommends against doing this). Nikon screw mount Fieldscope eyepieces will not fit the Zen-Ray adapter. Like you, I suspect that the Vortex Razor eyepieces are probably identical to the Zen-Ray eyepieces.
I've expressed my doubts to Charles about the usefulness of the eyepiece adapter in its current form. There are no "standard" threads for 1.25" eyepiece housings and many 1.25" eyepieces cannot be used without their barrels because the barrels sometimes contain field lenses, sometimes are not removable and sometimes if the barrel is removed all the lenses spill out.
Henry
I have these same Zen-Ray items on hand now for the purpose of writing a review which I hope to have finished in a week or two.
I agree that the zoom eyepiece is excellent, as it should be since it's a faithful copy of the current Swarovski 20-60x zoom. The 30x eyepiece is essentially identical to the eyepiece used on the Nikon SE series binoculars. I have a current Swarovski 30x eyepiece which is a completely different animal from the Zen-Ray 30x. Yes, the Swaro does fit the Zen-Ray scope despite some very small differences in the dimensions of the bayonet mounts (I should mention that Charles at Zen-Ray recommends against doing this). Nikon screw mount Fieldscope eyepieces will not fit the Zen-Ray adapter. Like you, I suspect that the Vortex Razor eyepieces are probably identical to the Zen-Ray eyepieces.
I've expressed my doubts to Charles about the usefulness of the eyepiece adapter in its current form. There are no "standard" threads for 1.25" eyepiece housings and many 1.25" eyepieces cannot be used without their barrels because the barrels sometimes contain field lenses, sometimes are not removable and sometimes if the barrel is removed all the lenses spill out.
Henry
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mayoayo
Well-known member
Henry....Good to know that You are working in the review...That means that the new Unit is a'working !!..I will be looking forward to read your comments,and compare with my own views
The Nikon fieldscope eyepieces must have a larger diameter thread than the threads in the ZEN adapter,,right?...I wouldnt mind to have the adapter machined to hold a nikon DS eyepiece ,If I had one...
I was thinking about the Hyperion eyepieces...they have a removable barrel,for sure,and even come with some adapter ,or fine tunning rings,to assure adaptability..These may fit the adapter ..Have you tried any astronomy eyepieces yet in the ZEN?...
The Nikon fieldscope eyepieces must have a larger diameter thread than the threads in the ZEN adapter,,right?...I wouldnt mind to have the adapter machined to hold a nikon DS eyepiece ,If I had one...
I was thinking about the Hyperion eyepieces...they have a removable barrel,for sure,and even come with some adapter ,or fine tunning rings,to assure adaptability..These may fit the adapter ..Have you tried any astronomy eyepieces yet in the ZEN?...
henry link
Well-known member
Yes, the Nikon thread is too large. The Hyperion eyepieces won't work with the adapter because they have lenses in their barrels. Besides, when the barrels are removed from the Hyperions the housing thread is a very large female thread, not close to what the adapter needs. I've tried placing a few astronomical eyepieces into the back of the scope to see if they reach focus at infinity. Pentax 14mm XW would not, Televue 19mm Panoptic and 13mm Nagler would reach focus but those can't be used with the adapter.
mayoayo
Well-known member
Zenzoom
Hi again...
I wanted to photograph some Star Tests that I am doing ,using the ZEN ED ZOOM ,but was frustrated about it,because the large diameter of the eyepiece wouldnt allow me to use my current adapters..I use a Canon A590IS ,with its filter adapter,and it has a thread of 52mm..I made an adapter to fit my Vixen LV and GHL eyepieces but this is too small in diameter for the Zoom,and I dont have any of the Universal ,clamp-on style adapters..So I did try to remove the Eyeguard assembly of the zoom,hoping to find some hidden threads and guess what?..
I found them..!..the eyeguard assembly screws just out,showing a simpre thread...A very useful feature,and although it will need a bit of tinkering (fun!) to find a system,at least the diameter of the exposed part of the eyepiece, is smaller now and It will be easy to find a way to adapt my camera..I already improvised a system to hold in place a 52mm ring(out of a filter)and was able to attach my camera and do some resolution tests..
I think ZEN should make now an adapter tube to fit the thread(49mm but not standard.It doesnt take 49mm photo extension tubes,so must be some metric).
Just an extension tube to convert to some standard ,maybe 52 mm thread just at the edge of the eyepiece would work great..this could be an excellent way to make a camera adapter ,that can be cheap , simple,and very reliable ,allowing zoom operation ,WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY a RIDICULOUSLY HIGH price!!! ....I found a lot to pay 169$$$$ for an adapter like the VORTEX DCA !!!!
see the picture..
Hi again...
I wanted to photograph some Star Tests that I am doing ,using the ZEN ED ZOOM ,but was frustrated about it,because the large diameter of the eyepiece wouldnt allow me to use my current adapters..I use a Canon A590IS ,with its filter adapter,and it has a thread of 52mm..I made an adapter to fit my Vixen LV and GHL eyepieces but this is too small in diameter for the Zoom,and I dont have any of the Universal ,clamp-on style adapters..So I did try to remove the Eyeguard assembly of the zoom,hoping to find some hidden threads and guess what?..
I found them..!..the eyeguard assembly screws just out,showing a simpre thread...A very useful feature,and although it will need a bit of tinkering (fun!) to find a system,at least the diameter of the exposed part of the eyepiece, is smaller now and It will be easy to find a way to adapt my camera..I already improvised a system to hold in place a 52mm ring(out of a filter)and was able to attach my camera and do some resolution tests..
I think ZEN should make now an adapter tube to fit the thread(49mm but not standard.It doesnt take 49mm photo extension tubes,so must be some metric).
Just an extension tube to convert to some standard ,maybe 52 mm thread just at the edge of the eyepiece would work great..this could be an excellent way to make a camera adapter ,that can be cheap , simple,and very reliable ,allowing zoom operation ,WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY a RIDICULOUSLY HIGH price!!! ....I found a lot to pay 169$$$$ for an adapter like the VORTEX DCA !!!!
see the picture..
Attachments
Does zen-ray 30x EP use the fold-down rubber eyecup like Nikon SE binocs? It will not work for me then. I can never get used to the fold-down type of eyecup
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henry link
Well-known member
There's a twist-up eyecup. See mayoayo's photo in post #54 above.
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