Sketching hints and tips. (1 Viewer)

RussB · Jan 2, 2010

Hi there,
I'm new to the forum and have just been enjoying some of the threads and the great art work on display. I'm eager to learn how I can improve my drawing. I've been practicing regularly for the last two and a half years and I'm getting to a point where sketching is now becoming my primary interest in birding, but I love it, especially when I'm in the 'zone'. Hope you know what I'm talking about, I think Lars does! I'd love to get into illustration - I do a bit for my local bird report but I'm having to contend with a properly trained artist! - and love the line drawings in the old BB's. I work solely with a pencil and need to open up my mind to other media, but I'm finding this pretty daunting.
First of all could someone please tell me how to send scanned sketches? Is it as simple as just attcahing using the paperclip icon?
While I'm here I'd like to say hi to Tim Wooton. Remember me? Myself, Mark langstone and you twitched, but dipped, a Pec Sand at Anglers in Sept 88A I was cutting my teeth at Wsbro CP at the time. How the memory works!

Cheers

Russ

timwootton · Jan 2, 2010

Hi Russ - Firstly a massive welcome to the best bit of the forum, glad you found us!!!
Your memory's a lot better than mine - but Worsborough was always a favourite place too (although leaving the car anywhere around there late 80s was taking a bit of a chance

).
Uploading images is fairly straightforward - hit the yellow 'Post Reply' button and there's a 'Manage Attachments option. From there, just select the upload you require and post-away! Look forward to seeing what you're up to - then I'm sure there'll be a word or two from the many luminaries who lurk around these parts.
All the best for 2010 mate - look forward to your first images.

colleenc · Jan 2, 2010

Welcome Russ, can't wait to see some work.....to expand a bit on Tim's instruction, "Manage attachments" is located below the dialog box where you type your reply. You have to pay attention to the size of the file, in the Manage Attachment window that pops up there is a chart of sizes allowed. Some people here manage to download big sizes, maybe they will tell us how...until then staying under the limit of the chart will load a nice size.

clive2604 · Jan 3, 2010

hi russ and welcome,
pencil rocks! and i love seeing the way others handle the medium.looking forward to seeing some of your work.

mark richards · Jan 3, 2010

Hi russ, and welcome to art forum...can't wait to see some of your work ...mark

RussB · Jan 3, 2010

Hi there,
Wow, what support there is for fellow artists on here. Here goes: tidied sketches of birds drawn whilst in the 'zone' i.e at least an hours sketching and three sheets of A4. Being brutally honest I don't know what to do with 'em. I think it's the journey rather than the destination! Ideally I'd like to submit them for illustative purposes; I've a bit of confidence with pencil but I think pen and wash would bring them to life. Perhaps I can send some to you guys who know what they're doing! Anyway, welcome constructive criticism as I seem to be soldiering on all on my own among all the digiscopers!
Common Gull, Goosander and Pochards done in the last 2 wks, by the way.

Russ

RussB · Jan 3, 2010

Hi again,
Missed one!

Look forward to the comments.

Cheers

Russ

timwootton · Jan 3, 2010

Just a quick reply - love te posture of the common gull, exactly as they are, beautifully seen. Goosander sheet is quite exceptional - the 3/4 face-on bird is throughly delightful. I'll add more later, if I mind on.
Superb!

Woody · Jan 5, 2010

Welcome Russ.

Tim's judgement is, as always, impeccable, the goosander sketch stands out even among others of quality. The best advice I had was what you've already given yourself; keep drawing as often and as much as you can remembering that the mistakes are as much a part of the process as the successes.

Mike

Apodemus · Jan 5, 2010

Very bold, confident sketches. Lovely.

colleenc · Jan 5, 2010

great sketches, nice value work on that last sheet.

RussB · Jan 5, 2010

Hi there,
thank you all for the positive comments. I was particularly pleased with my Pochards (more in a moment) but they've reproduced poorly.
Ok, I need to plug in to your expertise. Is there a correct way to field sketch or is it about doing what feels right? For start I go through lots of paper before I start getting the proportions something, but It's the only way that seems to work for me. Would more observation help?
Secondly, I have problems with birds front-on, especially ducks and gulls, just getting those eyes and bill right is a real, but wonderful challenge. Another problem is portraying round-bodied birds at odd angles, like geese and those dastardly duks again, but training myself to look at them as flat shapes has helped, and finally the positioning and movement of waders' legs-aaaagggghh - this is a real problem, especially when the bird's facing away of briskly walking/feeding. I have a feeling it's all down to observation and practice again, and this is what the wonderfully accomodating artists at the bird fair tell me. Just thought there might be some technique I'd missed.
Here's a couple more drawings ( Greenshank and Wigeon )of examples mentioned, but ones that are fairly successful.

Russ

nickderry · Jan 5, 2010

Hi Russ,

the only advice I can give you is to keep on doing what you do, you're doing it very well already, and the harder you push yourself to look at the birds and draw them, the easier you'll find the answers to your questions. Just one point - doing what feels right is essential to sketching, don't worry about whether what you're doing is right or wrong, just do it if you feel like doing it. Some superb stuff here and looking forward to more - I hope you do open up to other media, you're already comfortable with pencil - you've got a talent here, so push it as far as you can go, try moving out of the comfort zone and ruin as much paper as you need to whilst trying, the results you're after will come to you.

colleenc · Jan 6, 2010

As Nick says you are doing so well already, I'm especially impressed with how you place eyes to the bill ratio, I'm often wildly off in that. To get the legs sometimes I draw it from the pelvis to the knee, just a line, so I can get it to emerge in the right place, something suggested in my favorite bird drawing book "Drawing Birds" by John Busby

solitaryVSong · Jan 6, 2010

Very nice drawings! Nick's advice is very good: just keep at it, do what seems right to yourself, and push yourself a bit to try other approaches and media.

Looking forward to seeing a lot more!

rockfowl · Jan 6, 2010

Hey Russ,

Good to see you on here and amazed how much more confidence your showing in your sketch studies compared with the last time we spoke. The gulls a fine bit of work and the quackers are excellent, really like the sawbills.
Looking forward to seeing more, especially to see what you make of the rather challenging spatula bills later this month

Mark :t:

RussB · Jan 8, 2010

Hi all,
Thanks for your very supportive comments. Thinking about it, these are are a huge improvement on what I could do before, so going on Nick and Colleen's comments It seems I should just be more patient. One thing I would really like your thoughts on is this: Lars Jonsson says he starts a drawing within 6-8 seconds of observing it the subject. This being the time that the image is on the retina, or our short-term memory, or something! What amazes me is what he can recall and get down on paper in that time without resorting to past experience, as he says he doesn't possess a photographic memory! At most I can only remember things like the bill, or head or shapes of tertials ie only bits, until I 'get in to the bird'. I can draw from memory some time after the event but ultimately something is lost. I suppose what Lars has is down to awesome talent and years of practice. Do you agree? I do follow his advice of looking at a bird as it's my first, even just starlings, which make up 70% of what I sketch, especially when I don't have time for the field in the winter evenings.

Cheers, Russ

Ps - I agree, Mark; those spatulate bills should be fun, as if shovelers aren't hard enough!

Strandman · Jan 8, 2010

You're right to be pleased with those Pochards- a touch of the Laurel Tucker about them, which is a fine thing to have.

colleenc · Jan 8, 2010

I had the privilege of meeting LJ this fall and seeing his sketchbook just as he was explaining some things to John Busby and Barry Van Dusen, first all his drawings were very large( so were his hands!) and filling up one side of the big custom sketchbook was a drawing of some kind of duck, all he drew was one section of the back and curl of feathers that interested him, even one page was not enough and some of the drawing spilled over to the facing page.
(Van Dusen's drawings on the other hand were much smaller the whole bird fitting on one page and some background too, and the drawings had a very solid outline nearly engraved looking, and not a lot of volume, more of an illustrators line than a painter's line like LJ)

So at least in some instances he's looking just at one part and trying to capture that, his lines were flowing and not constrained, and he had a light dark roughed in as much as the line to describe the form. In his books hes says( and others say) after looking the short term memory lasts about 15 seconds for the impression. But I think we have to remember that he has done 4 or more field guides( ie thousands of drawings needed) and has been drawing birds for decades now. So how he draws is not something I could ever hope to do, and learning, while necessary from my betters, means taking what I can and adapting it to who I am as an artist. Next life I'm starting bird drawing very early|

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RussB · Jan 9, 2010

An insight into LJ's sketchbook - wow. Very revealing Colleen. I find looking through artists' sketchbooks so absorbing. This is my favourite part of visiting the Birdfair here in the UK.

Russ

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