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Queen of Spains in Sussex (1 Viewer)

Ghostly Vision

Well-known member
Hi all,

Although I don't have the exact details at the moment, I understand there are several QOS fritillaries at a site in Sussex at the moment, and they are quite easy to see.

Any updates from people with more details welcome.

Sean
 

Call me a cynic, but I am always suspicious when several specimens of a very rare migrant species turn up on the same site, at more or less the same time.

Whilst I will admit that it is possible that these current sightings are possibly the progeny of an earlier visitation by a fertile female, the odds are very much against it.

Unfortunately there are some people who are quite willing to obtain specimens of many species from places here in Britain or abroad simply to release them in a place where they are likely to be readily found.

I know of one breeder of British Butterflies who regularly releases large numbers of High Brown Fritillaries into areas where it has not been previously recorded. That is by no means the only species he releases either.

This particular individual seems to have a grudge against both Butterfly Conservation and Natural England (recently known as English Nature) and goes out of his way to deliberately create what are essentially false records of species that are not present there due to a natural expansion of their range.

Sadly, a small number of people seen to like introducing certain species into areas where they live (even if their existance there is transient) simply because they like to see these insects in their gardens, others do it for more perverse reasons, to the great annoyance of dedicated recorders like myself who have spent a lifetime building up a reliable record of the Lepidoptera in my own local counties.

This 'seeding' of species doesn't just happen in southern England, it has also happened in my own area in north-east England, although the species concerned here was a day flying moth.

Harry
 
They're at Brandy Hole Copse by the side of a maize field north-west of Chichester and apparently at least one showed this morning, although we had no luck this afternoon as they like the sun. There are a few of them left and based on what I heard from two Butterfly Conservation officers, I would say they are genuine.

Dave W
 
They're at Brandy Hole Copse by the side of a maize field north-west of Chichester and apparently at least one showed this morning, although we had no luck this afternoon as they like the sun. There are a few of them left and based on what I heard from two Butterfly Conservation officers, I would say they are genuine.

Dave W

Hello Dave,
I'd be interested in just what they said and also who they were. i.e. volunteer workers or employed by B.C. that convinced you that these Queen of Spain Frits., were genuine.

Introducing rare species covertly has been carried out in Britain since the early 1800's, originally by certain people for pecuniary advantage, (known to the insect collectors of the day as the Kentish Buccaneers). Today they're brought over for other reasons.

Many of the rare migrant species to Britain can be quite commonly found just over the English Channel you can have a day trip collecting there. Very easily and cheaply, especially if you live near the Channel Tunnel.

Harry
 
Thanks Harry,

Yes there is a similar rogue in the midlands who has released all sorts.

In this case though it might seem genuine given there were quite a few widely scattered records of the species in July - and it's not too much of a leap of faith if a female was seen egg-laying and then the site carefully watched thereafter?

In the case of butterflies, hopefully an introduction, perhaps even an intentional (and illegal) one, wouldn't affect the ecological balance?

Sean
 
Hello Harry,
The 2 officers concerned are, I believe, employed by Butterfly Conservation and cover Sussex and Hampshire respectively. BC are currently preparing a paper on the various sightings and their dates, but I understand that a female was seen on the 14th July and that they believe that this specimen originated from Normandy, which would be rather appropriate on this particular date. Thay are publicly stating that the butterflies are wild.

What is frustrating is the length of time it has taken for this news to trickle out to butterfly enthusiasts. I'm not sure whether there have been any sightings since the last confirmed one on Thursday morning. The BC officer reckons there's still a possibility for the next few days if we get a bit of sun.

Regards

Dave
 
Hello Harry,
The 2 officers concerned are, I believe, employed by Butterfly Conservation and cover Sussex and Hampshire respectively. BC are currently preparing a paper on the various sightings and their dates, but I understand that a female was seen on the 14th July and that they believe that this specimen originated from Normandy, which would be rather appropriate on this particular date. Thay are publicly stating that the butterflies are wild.

What is frustrating is the length of time it has taken for this news to trickle out to butterfly enthusiasts. I'm not sure whether there have been any sightings since the last confirmed one on Thursday morning. The BC officer reckons there's still a possibility for the next few days if we get a bit of sun.

Regards

Dave

Hello Dave,

Many thanks for your trouble, it's appreciated. There have been tales of specimens breeding here many decades ago, but none have withstood much scrutiny.

I can understand the secrecy, sadly entomological 'twitchers' are likely to trample the area where such rarities are reported and are likely to trample any larva or pupae underfoot. I've actually witnessed this happening on a Butterfly Conservation Field meeting some years ago. The site was very small in area and some 10 visitors literally flattend the vegetation on the site looking for the butterflies.

Harry
 
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A few years back there were at least 3 successive years where there were sightings of this species in the Minsmere area of Suffolk, suggesting some localised breeding + a prime spot for an immigrant.
 
A few years back there were at least 3 successive years where there were sightings of this species in the Minsmere area of Suffolk, suggesting some localised breeding + a prime spot for an immigrant.

Hello Aeshna5,

I'm aware of those records, and that's one of the things that disturbs me and makes me think that these specimens may have been 'seeded'.

There is very little evidence of this species breeding in Britain, and none for sucessful overwintering the this species in any stage.

Now, most of the records of the Q, of Sp. Frit are for single specimens, as one would expect from a very rare migrant, and these are scattered from Cornwall all along the south coast and then north up the eastern coastline as far north as Lincs. A good number of the records are inland rather than being coastal.

Now, to have a rare species turn up on the same site, three years in succession, naturally, is stretching the bounds of credulity in my opinion.

Yes, Minsmere is a well attended RSPB site, the car parks are often overflowing. What better place to release specimens of captive bred Q of Spain Frits? There's a very good chance they will be seen, given the amount of naturalists present there for most of the year.

Now, maybe I'm wrong. I accept that, but I was trained as a detective in my younger days and I always look at suspicious records with more than a little scepitcism. I've always dealt in facts, rather than simply accepting what someone else has said.

Minsmere must be unique in having Q.of Spain Frits. present, three years in succession, with no evidence whatsoever of them being able to, or being seen to, overwinter in Britain.

Fritillaries are by no means difficult to breed, and sadly there are people out there that would like nothing more than to 'Con' other people into believing that rare migrant species are regular visitors to a particular site.

It's been done many times in the past, and no doubt will be done again in the future.

I've recorded and investigated local butterfly, moth and dragonfly records for over 50 years in my home counties of Northumberland and Durham. There are a fair number of dubious records, and some downright frauds, and the evidence is there to prove it, if your prepared to look for it.

The fact that someone records a rare migrant on any site is no guarantee
that the record is genuine. They may do in good faith, but unless some investigation is carried out, and good substansive evidence is obtained, I would tend to be sceptical to say the least.

It is interesting to note that a certain individual who is known to release captive bred specimens of many species lives less than 75 miles from Minsmere, a distance much shorter than he is prepared to drive to release other species he has captive bred.

I'm not trying to be just 'Bolshie' I'm only interested in the truth.

Harry.
 
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It would help if we had some idea of how well this species did on the continent this year. We had huge numbers of Painted Ladys (mainly due to weather conditions in Morocco) earlier this year. If QoS had a similarly abundant year then it is feasible they arrived in this country in enough numbers to have bred successfully, particularly as it was a warm summer.

According to the link in post#2 there is a paper in preparation - perhaps it would be politic for anyone with concerns to get in touch with the author about them?
 
It would help if we had some idea of how well this species did on the continent this year. We had huge numbers of Painted Ladys (mainly due to weather conditions in Morocco) earlier this year. If QoS had a similarly abundant year then it is feasible they arrived in this country in enough numbers to have bred successfully, particularly as it was a warm summer.

According to the link in post#2 there is a paper in preparation - perhaps it would be politic for anyone with concerns to get in touch with the author about them?

Hello Imaginos,

I've looked on the National Butterfly Conservation website and also the county sites of Hampshire and Sussex. Absolutely no mention whatsoever of Q of S Frits.

I'll chase it up in a day or two, at the moment I have got 'Flu' and to be honest I cannot be bothered with anything except keeping warm and blowing my nose and going to bed.

Harry.
 
Even the UKLeps mailing group was slow on the news of the QoS.
re releases: you can buy QoS on the internet as larvae or pupae (also Purple Emperor and all the Uk frits). Here in Norfolk I know of 5 individuals and one group of releasers; the latter probably being responsible for the sudden appearence of Chalkhill Blue in the county. There are probably more releasers we don't know about.

Mostly it's not significant - although it does have one side effect. A couple of years ago we had sightings reported of Small Pearl-bordered frit from a location in the county. Now they were last seen in the county in 1984, and are presumed extinct, but it's just possible that a colony has clung on. So we could have gone into overdrive, canvessed the neighbourhood, instituted searches, found the colony and implemented conservation measures (got the site protected, managed the habitat etc). But actually what we did was go "garden shed job" and forgot about it. Given the overwhelming likelyhood that they were releases, and our limited resources, that was the sensible choice - but it still worries me that we might have missed the chance to protect a genuine survivor. (They haven't been seen since, so either they've gone or they were a release: we'll never know)

What really disturbs me is the possibility that someone has released european Swallowtails (macheon) in the last remaining county with the british subspecies (britannicus). The possibility of genetic contamination, and consequent loss of diversity is appalling: since any offspring will be less fit, it could even threaten the population. Given that commercial breeders will happily post macheon to a Norfolk address (£1.45 a pupae currently) without any qualms, and that they've even been sold on ebay, the possibility that they could be obtained by folk who don't realise the damage they could do - and might even think they could be doing good - is quite worrying. One seller even has "release them to boost local populations" on his website (admittedly about a much more common species - but it plants an idea in people's heads).
 
Hello HD,

You have my sympathy. After 50 years of recording in Northumberland and spending not an inconsiderable amount of money in persuit of my hobby, I find it sickening that unthinking idiots can do such things.

Major conservation organisations don't help either, take the Large Copper and Large Blue. The indigenous races are extinct and no foreign sub species will ever replace them. Yet both English Nature, now Natural England and Butterfly Conservation have actively supported these introductions.

Introductions are by no means new, during the late 1800's the Map Butterfly was introduced into the Forest of Dean. A very well known insect collector of the time a certain A.B.Farne took exception to this, and personally set out to exterminate every butterfly of that species he could find. Extreme? Perhaps.

The availability of larvae and pupae of rare British migrant butterflies at a fairly cheap price does nothing to disuade people from releasing them into the wild.

This is what infuriates me, how can any rare migrant species found here be considered a genuine migrant now releases are being made, and who decides which are genuine records or not?

Harry
 
Just out of interest, what in the British winter should be seen as a problem to successful over-wintering?

Hello Jos,

Britain has a climate governed mainly by the Atlantic Ocean, that is cold, wet and generally miserable. Europe on the other hand has a winter than is consideraby drier. It may get more snow in some places but it's powdery snow, not the damp wet slush that we in Britain seem to get.

I believe a lot of whether a butterfly can or cannot survive hibernation depends much on the humidity of the winter.

Looking at another species The Camberwell Beauty which occasionally migrates here. Very few records are known of it successfully surviving hibernation. Again probably due to the dampness here.

Harry
 
I believe a lot of whether a butterfly can or cannot survive hibernation depends much on the humidity of the winter.

If there is a limiter, I supposed wetness had to be a factor. Sure not the cold, Queen of Spain is moderately common in pockets out here, winters routinely minus 20 or 25, below 30 not so rare.

However, it must be a little more than pure dampness - sure Britain is grey, wet and cool most of the winter, but we also get a 'British winter' - it's called our autumn ;) Most of October, all November and often much of December is exactly what should be limiting them in Britain - damp, sleet, wet and a damp cold that eats ito you (tonight outside, around zero, a light drizzle and disgusting murk). Then comes the real crisp winter you speak of.

So our Queen of Spains get two winters for the price of one - a cold damp one, followed by a bitter cold dry one.

I wonder if the bitter cold might not also be of benefit, killing off parasites?
 
If there is a limiter, I supposed wetness had to be a factor. Sure not the cold, Queen of Spain is moderately common in pockets out here, winters routinely minus 20 or 25, below 30 not so rare.

However, it must be a little more than pure dampness - sure Britain is grey, wet and cool most of the winter, but we also get a 'British winter' - it's called our autumn ;) Most of October, all November and often much of December is exactly what should be limiting them in Britain - damp, sleet, wet and a damp cold that eats ito you (tonight outside, around zero, a light drizzle and disgusting murk). Then comes the real crisp winter you speak of.

So our Queen of Spains get two winters for the price of one - a cold damp one, followed by a bitter cold dry one.

I wonder if the bitter cold might not also be of benefit, killing off parasites?

Well Jos,


THere's a long term research project there if your up to it. Sadly I'm too old to undertake such a project. Good Luck.

Harry
 
Mention of the Minsmere records prompted me to dig out the Suffolk butterfly atlas to see what it has to say about Queen of Spain Fritillaries in Suffolk. The county totals are as follows:

1995: 6 (2 at Minsmere)
1996: 11+ (9+ at Minsmere, singles at two other sites)
1997: 28, with records from eight separate sites, at least 4 individuals at Minsmere, copulation observed at Thorpeness.
1998: 1, at Minsmere
1999: 1, at Minsmere

Thus while Minsmere was the main site, it was by no means the only site. Breeding at Minsmere in 1996, but not conclusively proven. The species account does not mention the possibility of releases of this species, but the possibility is mentioned for one or two other species. However, a colony of Purple Emperor not that far from Minsmere is known to have resulted from introductions.

Coastal Suffolk has a very dry climate by English standards, and the sightings at Minsmere in consecutive years may suggest some overwintering. The habitat in that area is rather similar to sites where I have seen the species in Denmark and Sweden - see below for one from Falsterbo in September of this year.

None of this is conclusive in either direction but I thought it useful to put the Minsmere records into some sort of context.
 

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Queen of Spain Fritillary is a quite common resident in the Dutch dunes. Elsewhere in the Netherlands, it's an irregular species, setting up colonies which last a few years and disappearing again.
Doesn't that sound like the English situation?
 
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