johnnybike
Well-known member
Only a joke Keith. You know how much I admire your work (photos and web site) as we have exchanged PMs on the matter
John
John
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Dodgy Canon 100-400mm IS lenses (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter crrlb001
- Start date
Keith Reeder
Watch the birdie...
Heh!
I'll be honest John, it's so long since I last got out and actually took a half-decent picture that I can barely call myself a photographer - not even a crap one!
Maybe this weekend though...
I'll be honest John, it's so long since I last got out and actually took a half-decent picture that I can barely call myself a photographer - not even a crap one!
Maybe this weekend though...
tjsimonsen
Well-known member
Hi.
There's quite a bit of play between my 350D and 100-400 as well.
So what I'll like to know is, should I blame the play between the lens and the body for the pic below? (I'll publish more pics from my current trip to the south western and western US when I get home).
Thomas
There's quite a bit of play between my 350D and 100-400 as well.
So what I'll like to know is, should I blame the play between the lens and the body for the pic below? (I'll publish more pics from my current trip to the south western and western US when I get home).
Thomas
tjsimonsen
Well-known member
Hmm. the pic seems to have dissapeared...
tjsimonsen
Well-known member
OK, I give up!
Here is the pic:
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/149600/limit/recent
Thomas
Here is the pic:
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/149600/limit/recent
Thomas
chaps1150gs
Member
Purchased a Canon 20d and a new 100-400 lens, all advice from this forum. Fantastic quality, just can not stop taking pictures, should have done it a long time go! It has made all the differance to my photography and made bird watching even more fun.
tjsimonsen
Well-known member
Hi Mark,
I was only joking. I have no concerns about the picture. It was a way of saying that I don't think that the play between the lens and the camera means anything.
/Thomas
I was only joking. I have no concerns about the picture. It was a way of saying that I don't think that the play between the lens and the camera means anything.
/Thomas
Keith Reeder
Watch the birdie...
Hi Barry,
I was going to put this in my PM response (sorry I haven't been back earlier - I've got a few PMs to catch up on), but yeah, I have a few thoughts.
First: you're 600 shots in. That's just a single good day's shooting, and probably not enough time to really get a feel for how the lens works. Patience really is the key here, although I know the "is my new lens a duffer?" anxiety - we all get it!
Some practical suggestions.
I can't make enough of the fact that, stabilised lens or not, you must develop a good hand-holding technique: it isn't hard, but it needs to become second nature. This page is my usual reference: http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/guides/technique/handholding1.html and tucking your elbows into your torso really makes a difference to the stability of the "platform".
You need to give the lens giros time to get up to speed: In the rush to get the shot it's easy to press the shutter too quickly, so you need to discipline yourself to wait until the image has settled in the viewfinder before taking the shot.
Related to the previous point - and a subtle one I haven't seen documented elsewhere, but which makes a massive difference (to me at least) - is a tip about focussing on the bird's eye.
We all know that we should, but I've learned that it's worth putting in an extra effort because of how the lens works.
I seem to be shooting in windy conditions more often than not, presumably because I'm on the coast, and I'm often getting knocked about. This is bound to affect how well I select my point of focus - but windy or not, this suggestion should be useful.
What I do is get onto the bird and half-depress the shutter to activate the IS: when it locks in, I'm probably not exactly on the eye, so, with the image in the VF is now stable, I reposition my point of focus and reactivate the IS. Second time round (or third time if that's what it takes) when I know I'm on the eye, I'll take the shot.
I might miss the odd shot being this pedantic, but the ones I get seem to work out pretty nice..!
A good example of this is the stonechat attached: much of the bird is slightly out of focus because the lens is wide open at f/5.6 and I was quite close to the bird, so the DOF is pretty thin; there's a bit of motion blur on the head and tail (only 1/250 shutter speed here - not ideal for 560mm hand-held, even with IS). It was windy (again!), this is hand-held, and of course I was also using the 1.4x TC.
But it's still my favourite/best stonechat now, and it works despite all the problems I mention, because the eye is nice and sharp, thanks to me using this little trick.
And finally, keep an eye on the shutter speed - I often shoot at f/5.6 to maximise it, happy in the knowledge that the 100-400 is a damn' sight better wide open than some people give it credit for.
So there you go, that's what works for me.
I've got no reason to think I've got a "special" 100-400 (indeed for the first few months of ownership I was pretty sure I only had an "average" one - I would regularly describe it as being simply "sharp enough for me" when writing about it - but a year in, as I use it more, it seems to be getting sharper!) and there's surely nowt special about me as a photographer. But from day one I was confident of the potential of the lens, and I've stuck at it.
My experiences closely mirror those of other 100-400 owners - there's a bit of a consensus among satisfied owners that there are more iffy 100-400 users than there are iffy 100-400s - and we all agree that it's a lens that needs to be given a chance.
I never use a tripod, but in addition to having a good hand-holding technique I will make use of any support options that are available in the field: I'll rest or lean on a fence post, gate or tree; I sometimes use my rucksack as a beanbag if I'm shooting low down; and I've even been known to swivel my Lowepro Slingshot 300 round to the front of my body and rest my elbows on it.
I don't really need additional support, but equally I don't see why not if it's available.
I always use IS mode 1, and the camera is on Centre Point focus/AI Servo/Aperture Priority mode.
I'm crap at estimating distance, but I guess I was only 15 feet from this stonechat (oh yeah, another tip: fieldcraft!)
It's important to keep a sense of proportion about your early experiences with the lens, Barry: you mention in your PM that you're getting excellent shots of your cat, so be confident that the lens is optically OK. Then bear in mind that although I've had the lens a year, I'm by no stretch of the imagination an experienced or knowledgeable photographer - I'm only two years in - but I'm doing OK with it, probably for no better reason than that I'm too bloody-minded to be beaten by a lump of glass and electronics!
And there we are, right back at my very first suggestion: patience and perseverence!
If you want to chuck a few of your pictures my way, drop me a line at keithjreeder(AT)gmail.com. One point though: I know you use PSP XI: I used that for a while but went back to PSP X because XI tends to strip out the Exif from images unless you fanny about with a rather convoluted "save" routine. The Exif is really important in figuring out what's going on with a picture, so if you like I'd be happy to see RAW files, if that's doable...
I was going to put this in my PM response (sorry I haven't been back earlier - I've got a few PMs to catch up on), but yeah, I have a few thoughts.
First: you're 600 shots in. That's just a single good day's shooting, and probably not enough time to really get a feel for how the lens works. Patience really is the key here, although I know the "is my new lens a duffer?" anxiety - we all get it!
Some practical suggestions.
I can't make enough of the fact that, stabilised lens or not, you must develop a good hand-holding technique: it isn't hard, but it needs to become second nature. This page is my usual reference: http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/guides/technique/handholding1.html and tucking your elbows into your torso really makes a difference to the stability of the "platform".
You need to give the lens giros time to get up to speed: In the rush to get the shot it's easy to press the shutter too quickly, so you need to discipline yourself to wait until the image has settled in the viewfinder before taking the shot.
Related to the previous point - and a subtle one I haven't seen documented elsewhere, but which makes a massive difference (to me at least) - is a tip about focussing on the bird's eye.
We all know that we should, but I've learned that it's worth putting in an extra effort because of how the lens works.
I seem to be shooting in windy conditions more often than not, presumably because I'm on the coast, and I'm often getting knocked about. This is bound to affect how well I select my point of focus - but windy or not, this suggestion should be useful.
What I do is get onto the bird and half-depress the shutter to activate the IS: when it locks in, I'm probably not exactly on the eye, so, with the image in the VF is now stable, I reposition my point of focus and reactivate the IS. Second time round (or third time if that's what it takes) when I know I'm on the eye, I'll take the shot.
I might miss the odd shot being this pedantic, but the ones I get seem to work out pretty nice..!
A good example of this is the stonechat attached: much of the bird is slightly out of focus because the lens is wide open at f/5.6 and I was quite close to the bird, so the DOF is pretty thin; there's a bit of motion blur on the head and tail (only 1/250 shutter speed here - not ideal for 560mm hand-held, even with IS). It was windy (again!), this is hand-held, and of course I was also using the 1.4x TC.
But it's still my favourite/best stonechat now, and it works despite all the problems I mention, because the eye is nice and sharp, thanks to me using this little trick.
And finally, keep an eye on the shutter speed - I often shoot at f/5.6 to maximise it, happy in the knowledge that the 100-400 is a damn' sight better wide open than some people give it credit for.
So there you go, that's what works for me.
I've got no reason to think I've got a "special" 100-400 (indeed for the first few months of ownership I was pretty sure I only had an "average" one - I would regularly describe it as being simply "sharp enough for me" when writing about it - but a year in, as I use it more, it seems to be getting sharper!) and there's surely nowt special about me as a photographer. But from day one I was confident of the potential of the lens, and I've stuck at it.
My experiences closely mirror those of other 100-400 owners - there's a bit of a consensus among satisfied owners that there are more iffy 100-400 users than there are iffy 100-400s - and we all agree that it's a lens that needs to be given a chance.
I never use a tripod, but in addition to having a good hand-holding technique I will make use of any support options that are available in the field: I'll rest or lean on a fence post, gate or tree; I sometimes use my rucksack as a beanbag if I'm shooting low down; and I've even been known to swivel my Lowepro Slingshot 300 round to the front of my body and rest my elbows on it.
I don't really need additional support, but equally I don't see why not if it's available.
I always use IS mode 1, and the camera is on Centre Point focus/AI Servo/Aperture Priority mode.
I'm crap at estimating distance, but I guess I was only 15 feet from this stonechat (oh yeah, another tip: fieldcraft!)
It's important to keep a sense of proportion about your early experiences with the lens, Barry: you mention in your PM that you're getting excellent shots of your cat, so be confident that the lens is optically OK. Then bear in mind that although I've had the lens a year, I'm by no stretch of the imagination an experienced or knowledgeable photographer - I'm only two years in - but I'm doing OK with it, probably for no better reason than that I'm too bloody-minded to be beaten by a lump of glass and electronics!
And there we are, right back at my very first suggestion: patience and perseverence!
If you want to chuck a few of your pictures my way, drop me a line at keithjreeder(AT)gmail.com. One point though: I know you use PSP XI: I used that for a while but went back to PSP X because XI tends to strip out the Exif from images unless you fanny about with a rather convoluted "save" routine. The Exif is really important in figuring out what's going on with a picture, so if you like I'd be happy to see RAW files, if that's doable...
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Thanks
Many thanks for the response and tips Keith. I appreciate you sharing your experience with me - as will many others who have aspired to take shots like yours I think. I haven't had too much anxiety about the quality of the lens - I was pretty sure it was down to my technique and range expectations. Point taken about fieldcraft. The transition from birdwatching to bird photography is more difficult that I imaged - I know where to find them, now I have to learn how to get close enough to the little bu**ers. I'm off to a spot on Dartmoor (Sheepstor) now and will take up your offer of sending some images should I manage to capture anything.
Thanks again
Barry
Many thanks for the response and tips Keith. I appreciate you sharing your experience with me - as will many others who have aspired to take shots like yours I think. I haven't had too much anxiety about the quality of the lens - I was pretty sure it was down to my technique and range expectations. Point taken about fieldcraft. The transition from birdwatching to bird photography is more difficult that I imaged - I know where to find them, now I have to learn how to get close enough to the little bu**ers. I'm off to a spot on Dartmoor (Sheepstor) now and will take up your offer of sending some images should I manage to capture anything.
Thanks again
Barry
a.dancy
Registered User
Just my little bit!
I bought my canon 100-400 about 3 years ago. It is not my main lens as such but I carry it to work just in case those opportunities arrive and I can take shot of unexpected rarities that drop into the town centre now and again. I don't get out often to photograph birds as often as I would like nor as often as people think. I take it with me on surveys and shoot on the hoof with it now and again. I would not want to be without it. I do not always get the quality of shots I'd like with it but that is because of 'user error'! However I have taken shots which suggest to me that this lens stands beside other pro lenses and putting modesty aside I have a few shots which would not be out of place on the front cover of a magazine.
In my humble opinion users who are not happy with the lens are expecting too much from the use of image stabilisation and are allowing sloppy technique to creep in. If users are prepared to put some effort into improving technique they may become pleasantly surprised. I have not perfected technique with the lens...I have a bit to go but one thing is for sure....I bet we still get more award winning shots with it in the future ,there has been more than a handful of them in the past.
I won't go into the area of getting sharp images at ridiculously slow shutter speeds where the lens is handheld without any form of support. It is possible!
Finally some of my favourite images have been taken with this lens. Check out Nigel Blake's barn owl with mouse/vole shot...a mind-blowing shot in my view and certainly a shot that grabs the attention. I can say the same for many of Keith Reeder's too.
I bought my canon 100-400 about 3 years ago. It is not my main lens as such but I carry it to work just in case those opportunities arrive and I can take shot of unexpected rarities that drop into the town centre now and again. I don't get out often to photograph birds as often as I would like nor as often as people think. I take it with me on surveys and shoot on the hoof with it now and again. I would not want to be without it. I do not always get the quality of shots I'd like with it but that is because of 'user error'! However I have taken shots which suggest to me that this lens stands beside other pro lenses and putting modesty aside I have a few shots which would not be out of place on the front cover of a magazine.
In my humble opinion users who are not happy with the lens are expecting too much from the use of image stabilisation and are allowing sloppy technique to creep in. If users are prepared to put some effort into improving technique they may become pleasantly surprised. I have not perfected technique with the lens...I have a bit to go but one thing is for sure....I bet we still get more award winning shots with it in the future ,there has been more than a handful of them in the past.
I won't go into the area of getting sharp images at ridiculously slow shutter speeds where the lens is handheld without any form of support. It is possible!
Finally some of my favourite images have been taken with this lens. Check out Nigel Blake's barn owl with mouse/vole shot...a mind-blowing shot in my view and certainly a shot that grabs the attention. I can say the same for many of Keith Reeder's too.
Keith Reeder
Watch the birdie...
I'm convinced of that too, Adrian - IS isn't an alternative to good hand-holding technique, you need both.
Looking back I've realised that believing that IS was some sort of a miracle cure was why I was initially disappointed with my Sigma 80-400mm OS.
When I started doing some of the work of providing a stable platform, my pictures changed overnight.
Thanks also for those tips Keith. I am in the process of purchasing a 30D with "lens" for birding and am 95% leaning towards the 100-400 zoom, even given the oft-reported "weight and dust" problems. Never having used IS before and therefore having had to rely upon my own version of fieldcraft (as you say, elbows tight and also breathe out not in) with gate posts, rucksack, etc. for support I was interested to hear your tips about giving it "time" to adjust.
As for the AF, the first thing most people look at when speaking to other people are their eyes and when viewing photographs, the same is mostly true* even if it is of a bird (* Page 3 of the Sun notwithstanding ... no offence intended!).
So, given Barry's initial experiences with the kit, I shall take heart and not expect miracles at first WHEN I finally decide upon a lens (btw it's a straight shootout between that and the 400mm Prime at the moment) and take the plunge. Hopefully by then an Indian Summer will be upon us (and the waders I hope to photograph!).
Finally, love the Stonechat shot!
Roy
As for the AF, the first thing most people look at when speaking to other people are their eyes and when viewing photographs, the same is mostly true* even if it is of a bird (* Page 3 of the Sun notwithstanding ... no offence intended!).
So, given Barry's initial experiences with the kit, I shall take heart and not expect miracles at first WHEN I finally decide upon a lens (btw it's a straight shootout between that and the 400mm Prime at the moment) and take the plunge. Hopefully by then an Indian Summer will be upon us (and the waders I hope to photograph!).
Finally, love the Stonechat shot!
Roy
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