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Tilmatura dupontii (1 Viewer)

Taphrospilus

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
From original article I am not clear why inHBW Alive ist stated:
  • M. Dupont (d. 1873) French natural history dealer (syn. Pachyramphus viridis, Tilmatura).

I assume one of these guys Dupont, E. ( ) and (Richard) Henry (1798-1873). The Dupont brothers were dealers in natural history specimens trading in Paris. They also undertook collecting expeditions.

So how did you come to this conclusion?
 
[Here], in a slightly earlier hummingbird work ("Avertissement" dated from 1829; Tilmatura dupontii is from 1832), Lesson wrote:
Nous devons aussi des remercîmens à MM. Florent, Prévost et Dupont, de l'empressement qu'ils ont apporté à nous communiquer les oiseaux-mouches qu'ils se sont procurés; ce dernier surtout nous a laissé consulter la belle suite d'espèces que son frère (feu Dupont, artiste très connu par les pièces anatomiques en cire qui lui ont valu les plus grands éloges) avait rassemblée à grands frais.
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"We also owe thanks to Messrs. Florent, Prévost and Dupont, for the eagerness they have brought to give us access to the hummingbirds they had obtained; especially the latter let us study the beautiful series of species that his brother (the late Dupont, an artist well known for the anatomical wax pieces that have earned him the highest praise) had gathered at great expense."

This makes this "M. Dupont" the brother of Léonard Puech Dupont (1795 - 1828): Richard-Henry Puech Dupont (1798 - 1873).

[Here] is a short obituary in Bulletin des séances de la Société entomologique de France.

(Note the explicit reference to his brother:
Son frère aîné, Léonard, mort en 1828, avait, l'un des premiers en France, sinon le premier, exécuté en cire avec un grand talent des pièces anatomiques dont la belle collection , acquise en 1847 par le Ministère de l'Instruction publique, fait actuellement partie de l'un des Musées du Gouvernement.
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"His elder brother, Léonard, deceased in 1828, had, one of the first in France, if not the first one, made in wax with great skill anatomical pieces the beautiful collection of which, acquired in 1847 by the Ministry of Public Instruction, is currently part of one of the Museums of the government.")
 
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In the absence of a specific dedication by Lesson 1832 we must be left floundering by his original intent re Tilmatura. I am inclined towards Léonard, dead only a few years, who was the artisan and early trochilidist who had gathered together a fine collection at great expense. However, this does not discount Richard-Henry, entomologist and conchologist, who seems to have given choice specimens from his brother's collection to Lesson for description.
Dupont's Lark Chersophilus was undoubtedly named for Léonard who, perhaps, collected the specimen in North Africa (although the type locality is Provence).
Léonard is probably honoured also in Platyrhynchus dupontii Vieillot, 1822, Tabl. Enc. Méth., Orn., 2, livr. 91, p. 843 (= Pachyramphus viridis), but I have not yet seen the original description.
 
Well, the one who is thanked in the OD ("Nous sommes redevables de la communication de la seule espèce connue à M. Dupont."), is the one who gave him access to ("communicated" him) the specimen. Based on the 1829 text, it seem that this role was played by Richard-Henry, after Léonard's death. And as the species was not included in the previous book, he presumably had not seen it at this point.
That said, I agree that this is indeed no explicit dedication.

Platyrhynchus dupontii Vieillot, 1822, Tabl. Enc. Méth., Orn., 2, livr. 91, p. 843.
Cet oiseau, que M. Dupont, naturaliste, possède dans sa collection, [...]
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"This bird, that Mr. Dupont, naturalist, owns in his collection, [...]" Here it is clearly the collection's owner who is cited. (He was still alive at this date.)
 
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As I mentioned there is as an elder brother E. Dupont as well. Bulletin of the British Museum (Natural History).: Entomology. Supplement, Vol 20, 1973, p. 274. Unfortunatelly only to see in preview in Google books. Maybe consider him as well.
 
If I read "Manuel du naturaliste préparateur" from Emmanuel Canivet, Pierre Boitard Page 71 the mother of Léonard Puech Dupont (1795-1828) was involved in the business as well.

Here more about Richard-Henry Puech Dupont
 

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British Museum (Natural History).: Entomology. Supplement, Vol 20, 1973, p. 274. [full access here]

(However, this still cites only two brothers, not three, Léonard being here "replaced" by "E.", about whom the info available to the author was obviously scanty/lacking (no complete first name, birth/death dates left blank). So it might be justified to question the correctness of the initial, I think. Do you find suggestion of a third brother elsewhere?)
 
Could only find Dupont, Edouard (1841—1911). Directeur du Musée Royal d'Histoire Naturelle à Bruxelles. But he is for sure not the elder brother. Maybe "Cabinet de M. Dupont ainé, naturaliste: ... pièces modelées en cire, représentant l'anatomie humaine et comparée, l'histoire de la grossesse et du foetus, la pathologie; comprenant plusieurs espèces des maladies les plus curieuses" gives more information (assume a catalogue of Léonard Puech Dupont collections).
 
From National Library of Medicine:

Cabinet de M. Dupont ainé, naturaliste ... pièces modelées en cire, représentant l'anatomie humaine et comparée, l'histoire de la grossesse et du foetus, la pathologie; comprenant plusieurs espèces des maladies les plus curieuses.

Author(s): Dupont, Léonard Puech, 1795-1828

Title(s): Cabinet de M. Dupont ainé, naturaliste ... pièces modelées en cire, représentant l'anatomie humaine et comparée, l'histoire de la grossesse et du foetus, la pathologie; comprenant plusieurs espèces des maladies les plus curieuses.

Other Title(s): Catalogue raisonné du cabinet de M. Dupont aîné

Country of Publication:FrancePublisher:paris, Duverger, 1827.

Description:75 p.Language: French

Notes:Half-title: Catalogue raisonné du cabinet de M. Dupont ainé.

Contains signature of J. B. S. Jackson.

NLM ID:62650330R [Book]
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Note that "aîné" = elder.
If Léonard was so called, any third brother would almost certainly have to be younger than him.
 
I have a general question for a proper french speaking persons here. In the article above is written Puech dit Dupont. I found it as well as Puech dite Dupont here p. 13 of 43 or 15 of 43. What does that dit or dite really mean? Or why are you getting such an additional name?
 
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Taphrospilus said:
I have a general question for a proper french speaking persons here. In the article above is written Puech dit Dupont. I found it as well as Puech dite Dupont here p. 13 of 43 or 15 of 43. What does that dit or dite really mean? Or why are you getting such an additional name?
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I'm unclear what it means or implies exactly in the present case.
'dit' means 'said' (it's the masc sing of the past participle of 'dire', 'to say'; 'dite' is the feminine equivalent, and would be a grammatical error if applied to a man).
This type of compound 'name' suggests 'Puech' as the actual/official name, while 'Dupont' would be some sort of unofficial name (or nickname) by which a person (or perhaps a branch of a family) was known. But, in this case, the whole compound apparently became the official patronym at some point.
 
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Thank's for that Laurent. I have one other question here p. 233 of 457 right lower corner is the oldest of the Puech dit Dupont brothers. Would you read it as Gouy or Guy? Of course he is of nor relevance in terms of etymology as he died with 3 years but I am curious.
 
Taphrospilus said:
Thank's for that Laurent. I have one other question here p. 233 of 457 right lower corner is the oldest of the Puech dit Dupont brothers. Would you read it as Gouy or Guy? Of course he is of nor relevance in terms of etymology as he died with 3 years but I am curious.
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It's Henry, I believe.
(Odd 'h', admittedly, but compare to 'Puech'.)

He died 22 pluviôse, an 6: [here], 202/659, lower left. The name is easier to read there.
 
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I am wondering if Richard-Henry Puech Dupont was really a conchologist as mentioned in the key? I personally feel this was more the business/interest of his mother Marie-Françoise née Badin as shells are named after her by L. C. Kiener, Léon de Joannis and Contant A. Récluz. See Mearns et Al p. 193. I see no real link between Richard-Henry and shells, molluscs etc. As well I do not see a publication from him here on this topic.


P.S. Even if not related to bird etymology I think the botanist in footnote 1 of Mearns et Al paper is André Du Pont (1756-1817) here and none of the ones they speculated.
 
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Even if it is not bird etymology related (or only indirectly) I want to come back on the footnote. Mearns et al. refered here to this entry about Dupont aîne (which could be interpreted as Léonard Dupont), but I agree neither here nor here fit to Léonard.

But this lead to the question about articles mentioned under Dupont H.

Are Observationes sur le Typha, Sur le pistil des Scutellaria, Sur les caractères génériques de Gypsophila Saxifraga and Observations relatives à quelques genres de la famille des Chénopodées really published by Richard Henry Puech dit Dupont?

The first of them could give an indication as ist is written Membres de la Société polymathique de Paris. And here he mentioned that he was member of the Société polymathique du Morbihan (but two different locations of the Society).

If this is the same author he was interessted in entomology and botany. I could not find any publication on conchology as mentioned in HBW alive key in relationship to Henry Dupont.
 
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