Across The Pond - Same Bird, Different Names! (1 Viewer)

AlexC · Oct 6, 2006

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this. I mean, what's the deal? We can't agree? We're all bird-lovers here, does anyone think there's any solution? Either way, I thought this would be a fun place to post all name differences (go ahead and post more) - and it doesn't only have to be those across the pond, it can be anywhere.

Black-bellied Plover = Grey (which we spell Gray) Plover
Common Loon = Great Northern Diver
Northern Harrier = Hen Harrier

Oh and one more thing. What's with all the abbreviations? Jay, Wren, Goshawk, Blackbird, Robin - there are OTHER KINDS of these, can't we do them some respect and give some muscle to the name? I mean, how sexy does Eurasian Jay sound? VERY.

AlexC · Oct 6, 2006

Just some more:

Eared Grebe = Black-necked Grebe
Gray-headed Chickadee = Siberian Tit

Allen S. Moore · Oct 6, 2006

How times change!

overworkedirish said:
Oh and one more thing. What's with all the abbreviations? Jay, Wren, Goshawk, Blackbird, Robin - there are OTHER KINDS of these, can't we do them some respect and give some muscle to the name? I mean, how sexy does Eurasian Jay sound? VERY.

I was a student 30 years ago (this side of the "pond"), and don't think that I knew anyone who thought that "Eurasian" was very sexy. How times change!

OwlTalon · Oct 6, 2006

Agreed. I posted this topic a while back, and I got more:
America
Great Comorant
Pomarine Jaeger
Rock Pigeon
Buteo
Winter Wren
Europe
Cormorant
Pomarine Skua
Feral Pigeon
Buzzard
Wren

And of course there is the matter of same names for unrelated birds; "robin", "warbler", "buzzard", "blackbird", "lark" (as in meadowlark).

At least we agree on some, like Snowy Owl and Golden Eagle.

Also, folks on both sides of the pond mess up the names of birds on opposite side from said side of the pond all the time. (that was clear as mud)

Coherence People! Coherence! Order!(And yet, my room is a mess o

)

Grousemore · Oct 6, 2006

You're a bit awry with the Buteo-Buzzard comparison!

OwlTalon · Oct 6, 2006

I know, they all belong in the genus Buteo and people on both sides call them buzzards, but I mean the common names of "their" birds often include "---Buzzard" while "ours" are usually "---Hawk".

lockbreeze926 · Oct 6, 2006

Then again,there are those which used to be "the same" but were then split, so that we then had different names for different species, not different names for the same species, like (Black-Billed) Magpie.

Keith Reeder · Oct 6, 2006

Well I'm just going to say (with tongue firmly in cheek, guys!) that we were calling our birds by the names we use, centuries before you decided to call 'em something different..!

arco13 · Oct 6, 2006

Keith Reeder said:
Well I'm just going to say (with tongue firmly in cheek, guys!) that we were calling our birds by the names we use, centuries before you decided to call 'em something different..!

How did you guys come up with the name Tit? I thought that was a girls boobie. 3

Grousemore · Oct 6, 2006

arco13 said:
How did you guys come up with the name Tit? I thought that was a girls boobie. 3

Isn't it your bedtime?

AlexC · Oct 6, 2006

Allen S. Moore said:
I was a student 30 years ago (this side of the "pond"), and don't think that I knew anyone who thought that "Eurasian" was very sexy. How times change!

Hahahahahaha, had a good laugh at that one, Allen. I was half-kidding.

Keith Reeder said:
Well I'm just going to say (with tongue firmly in cheek, guys!) that we were calling our birds by the names we use, centuries before you decided to call 'em something different..!

Hahaha, what if I said I AGREE, Keith? Screw our new-fangled names. Out the window with Gray-headed Chickadee! Siberian Tit! The only problem is I think that 'tit' has a more sexual conotation in the states than it does in the UK. Seriously. You have no idea how much my friends cracked up when I told them that on my trip to Italy & Austria I saw a Great Tit. So, for now, instead of worrying about who's "right," let's just do some fun comparison:

Arctic Loon = Black-throated Diver
Black-crowned Night-Heron = Night-Heron
Tundra Swan = Bewick's Swan
Northern Pintail = Pintail
Northern Shoveler = Shoveler
Eurasian Wigeon = Wigeon
Green-winged Teal = (Common?) Teal
Greater Scaup = Scaup
Common Eider = Eider
Black Scoter = Common Scoter
Common Goldeneye = Goldeneye
Common Merganser = Goosander
Mew Gull = Common Gull

arco13 · Oct 6, 2006

Grousemore said:
Isn't it your bedtime?

Lighten up Grousemore. It was a joke.

AlexC · Oct 6, 2006

arco13 said:
Lighten up Grousemore. It was a joke.

Don't take it personally, arco, he was definitely just kidding.

emupilot · Oct 6, 2006

Loon vs Diver is another difference.

We changed our Common Gallinule to Common Moorhen to match the Old World name. Have any Old World birds had their names changed to match ours? A good start would be to change "Wren" to "Winter Wren", since we've known for hundreds of years that the "Wren" isn't the only Wren.

OwlTalon · Oct 6, 2006

Is my condor friend <--- officially called "California" or "Californian"? Seems Americans (We actually have this bird on our soil, we get to name it! HAHA!![sorry, that was puerile, but I am a teenager]) call it California, whilst Europeans call it the latter.

By the same token, I'm sure "you guys over there" could think of a bird name "we've" messed up. I would like to hear it!

AlexC · Oct 6, 2006

TCondorOwl92 said:
By the same token, I'm sure "you guys over there" could think of a bird name "we've" messed up. I would like to hear it!

Well on one hand, I like "Loon" over "Diver," but I also like "Great Northern" over "Common." Now to criticize my fellow Americans... I think we REALLY screwed up Grosbeaks. Come on. Evening, Hooded, etc. (Fringillidae) vs. Rose-breasted, Black-headed, etc. (Cardinalidae) - two completely different families, both whose Grosbeaks are New World - PERFECT OPPURTUNITY TO BE CREATIVE, but no. Now it just confuses beginners.

I think that SOME differences are cool, and actually good, like how we call our Emberizids sparrows while you guys call them buntings - it helps differenciate regions - of course, when a bird hangs out in BOTH regions, that's when the name-people need to bump heads and come up with a universal term.

EDIT: Also, with names by region, when something weird pops up, it sounds cooler and more exotic. Like, would you travel hundreds of miles for a Rustic Sparrow? No. But a Rustic Bunting? Maybe (I would).

bkrownd · Oct 6, 2006

Be glad you don't have to also remember the Hawaiian names for sea birds.

citrinella · Oct 6, 2006

In reply to the original point : I welcome diversity, wouldn't want to see standardization and don't agree with the recommendations of the BOU naming committee. Waste of time and money, standard (scientific) names are already available for cross-cultural understanding. The diverse names in use may reflect the birds interaction with the local habitat and their place in local culture as well as being descriptive. Not something I want to lose.

Keith Reeder said:
Well I'm just going to say (with tongue firmly in cheek, guys!) that we were calling our birds by the names we use, centuries before you decided to call 'em something different..!

Tongue in cheek noted, I wouldn't be so sure. Language often stays the same in a newly colonized country for a while before it starts to evolve, so in some respects American English is reckoned to be more like English from the time of the pilgrim fathers and more recent colonists than is spoken in the UK today. Could some of the terms used in North America be older than the ones in use in the UK today ? especially given the activities of the BOU.

overworkedirish said:
Arctic Loon = Black-throated Diver
Mew Gull = Common Gull

Two possible examples. Loon is doric for boy, Mew is widespread in Scotland for Common gull. Could these be older names than the ones "officially" in use now ?

As an aside, I have seen it suggested that loons are so named because they sound like a boy crying out for help when they have fallen into the water, remarkably like from a distance on a still day.

Are there Wheatears in North America ? I know this name was consciously changed by Victorians from White-arse because that offended their sensibilities. Mind you, sounds like North American sensibilities are just as easy offended.

Mike.

cuckooroller · Oct 6, 2006

Lest any of our N American members believe that nomenclatural name changes are weighted in favor of the European usage. It's not. I just got finished updating the Howard & Moore some time ago and there were lots of common name changes to N American usages. Usually related to orthography., e.g., for birds not ranging in the Ancient World and containing names such as Grey-something or other, they have been changed to Gray-something or other. Likewise for the American ranging birds having been weighted down with that ridiculously useless dipthong -ou-, e.g., something or other-coloured, well this has been mercifully changed to something or other-colored.

lockbreeze926 · Oct 6, 2006

arco13 said:
How did you guys come up with the name Tit? I thought that was a girls boobie. 3

Well, since you started it..........

It is often quite impossible to avoid referring verbally to a pair from this delightful bird family, if that is what you are observing in the field, and this can cause some consternation in non-birders, espcially when the species is Parus Major....

Across The Pond - Same Bird, Different Names! (1 Viewer)

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