Portuguese House Martin (1 Viewer)

Hello all,

Does anyone know which subspecies of House Martin, Delichon urbica, would be found in Portugal, specifically central-west Portugal?

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide me!

Brad

Svensson says (The identification of European Passerines) that Delichon urbica ssp. urbica breeds in Europe, North Africa, West Siberia and Middle Asia and aberration of subspecies from Far East to Europe are unlikely.

Hannu

This excludes meridionalis then as well, does it?

hannu said:

Svensson says (The identification of European Passerines) that Delichon urbica ssp. urbica breeds in Europe, North Africa, West Siberia and Middle Asia and aberration of subspecies from Far East to Europe are unlikely.

Hannu

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sclateria said:

This excludes meridionalis then as well, does it?

Click to expand...

Svensson did not mentioned any other subspecies on his book.
I have not heard before about the subspecies of meridionalis concerning the House Martin. So does it some new subspecies, which breeds just in Far East or some where else, which not aberrant to Europe ?

Next link gives 4 subspecies to House Martin:
my.ort.org.il/holon/birds/aw8.html

H. u. urbica Europe and N Africa east to W Siberia, Kashmir, and India.
H. u. lagopoda C and E Asia from Yenisey basin, Altai mountains, Ussuriland, Kuril Is, and Japan.
H. u. migrimentalis S-E China and Taiwan.
H. u. cashmeriensis Himalayas from Pakistan to S-W China.

On follow link has discuss about the possibility obs of Asian House Martins in Northern Israel :
http://www.birdingisrael.com/birdNews/newsAlert/AsianHouseMartin/asianHouseMartin_3.htm

Unfortunately I have not any Swallow book to check the situation of subspecies of House Martin in this time.

Do you have some obs about the presumption of non-nominate House Martins ?

Hannu

The following info is from HBW vol. 9, which was published just a few months ago and probably the most up-to-date you'll find anywhere:

Three subspecies for D. urbicum:

urbicum: W, C & N Europe to W Siberia, winter mainly in sub-Saharan Africa.
meridionale: S Europe, N Africa and WC Asia (E to Tien Shan and Kashmir); winters Africa and SW Asia.
lagopodum E Asia from middle and upper R Yenisey, Altai Mts and N Mongolia E to Anadyrland, Sea of Okhotsk and NE China; probably winters mainly in SE Asia.

Furthermore, they note the following:

"Nominate race exhibits largely clinal decrease in size from N to S, but abrupt size reduction in S Europe [this being ssp. meridionale]".

So, the breeding race in Portugal is meridionale, but nominate possibly occur during migration. Note that races cashmeriensis (= cashmeriense) & nigrimentalis (= nigrimentale) mentioned by Hannu generally are considered subspecies of the Asian House Martin (D. dasypus). This is due to overlap in breeding ranges (apparently w/o interbreeding) with D. urbicum. Furthermore, there are indications that nominate race of D. urbicum and ssp. lagopodum breed parapatrically in Buryatia (Russia), meaning that a third species may be involved.

Rasmus,

Does it possible to differ these two subspecies (urbicum/meridionale) without measures ? Does these subspecies have any outer characters, where these birds can differ ? When ssp. meridionale has found or confirmed in first time ?

Hannu

hannu said:

Rasmus,

Does it possible to differ these two subspecies (urbicum/meridionale) without measures ? Does these subspecies have any outer characters, where these birds can differ ? When ssp. meridionale has found or confirmed in first time ?

Hannu

Click to expand...

According to HBW, size is the only difference between nominate and ssp. meridionale. Ssp. meridionale was described by Hartert in 1910, but was not recognized for a long time due to confusion over the variation in European House Martins.

Thanx Rasmus !

Would you kindly yet tell me about the differences of size between these ssp ?
And there is no exactly (accurate) mentions about the breeding places of ssp. meridionale in your book?

Hannu

No, HBW doesn't give exact measurements for the individual races, nor more precise range than given in my previous post. I'm sure I could dig it out somewhere in the literature I have available, but similar detective work could be done by someone with a deeper interest in this matter and a will to spend a bit of time in a university library. If you do this, remember the variation in the species/subspecies name in recent literature: The regularly used Delichon urbica meridionalis versus the correct Delichon urbicum meridionale (see David & Gosselin 2002. Bull. Br. Ornithol. Club 122: 257-282).

Thanx Rasmus on your efforts and refers !
It's quite common that these latin names variate at least ssp - level.

I must buy soon one bird book, which focusing only swifts, swallows and martins.
I'm specially interested in Barn Swallows, but all Apodidae species and Hirundinidae species are my favourite birds.

Hannu

This is what initially led me to wonder- Clements says meridionalis occurs "Mediterranean basin to North Africa, Iran and n India", but that's it for that race. But being in Canada and adequately ignorant of European geography, didn't know whether Portugal is at all considered part of the Mediterranean basin.

Brad