Peru Birding Tours - stealing copyrighted material (1 Viewer)

In recent years there are many new bird tour operators in Peru, and I for one is happy about this fact. It means Peru as birding destination is gaining ground, and this is vital for conservation of important habitat and conservation of threatened species. Many of the local guides who are both friends and previous employed guides or free lance guides who have guided for us, now have their own companies. And while the work ethics towards the company who just had employed the guide sometimes is somewhat questionable for someone from Europe or the US, it also reflects reality that birders are better connected nowadays. A guide will get raved, and the get private clients by undercutting the price given by the previous employer. It is a natural consequence. In a near future there may be some official criteria and licensing but until that day comes, we will see more companies mushrooming from each and every guide who ever guided a bird watching tour in Peru, and while this may give lower price for the end consumer it may also contain some risks.

In recent years there are many new bird tour operators in Peru, and I for one is happy about this fact. It means Peru as birding destination is gaining ground, and this is vital for conservation of important habitat and conservation of threatened species. Many of the local guides who are both friends and previous employed guides or free lance guides who have guided for us, now have their own companies. And while the work ethics towards the company who just had employed the guide sometimes is somewhat questionable for someone from Europe or the US, it also reflects reality that birders are better connected nowadays. A guide will get raved, and the get private clients by undercutting the price given by the previous employer. It is a natural consequence. In a near future there may be some official criteria and licensing but until that day comes, we will see more companies mushrooming from each and every guide who ever guided a bird watching tour in Peru, and while this may give lower price for the end consumer it may also contain some risks.

One thing that is really getting me right now is to discover that one of these companies is stealing web material from established tour companies including my company.

Here is a screen shot from the Peru Birding Tours.



This text is identical to that of our website.

One of the pictures that was in tour slider of the tour showing a White-masked Antbird in the hand was even marked Omar Diaz - Peru Birding Tours in the water mark.



The photo is by Christophe Gouraud taken at the original discovery at the San Lorenzo site a few years back.

Since a few days the text and photo have been changed, but this is not all. And this certainly is not a one time event. Manu Expeditions were also hit by Periu Birding Tours offering their guides on the PBT website, with the identical text taken from Manu Expeditions site and without the consent of their guides.

Furthermore, both carefully worded descriptions in the tours of Pantanal, Brazil and Santa Marta, Colombia on the Peru Birding Tours website were taken word by word from FIELD GUIDES.

It is flattering in a way to be in this good company. The copycats only steal from the best. While Omar may be a good birder, he totally lacks criteria and originality. I mean, he could have come up with a better slogan, couldn't he?

As I said, I don't mind competition, but stealing is bad. Unfortunately, in this day and age there is little one can do about this, and especially in Peru, there would not be any legal consequences of this behaviour. So, what else to do than to publically shaming.

Saludos and MORE BIRDS

Gunnar

Sorry to hear that there is no legal remedy for you. That's gotta be tough to deal with. On the other side of this, seeing that there is no legal ramifications, perhaps you can start naming the companies that are stealing your info both on your website and elsewhere?

On a semantic but important point, what is happening is plagiarism and not stealing. I suspect there may could be legal avenues in Peruvian law, as there have been some incidents in Peru involving plagiarism:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-33966717
http://www.voanews.com/a/peru-acuna-plagiarism-allegations/3166038.html

However, I don't think going legal is the best option (cost & time). It may be an idea to get in touch with the other bird guide and politely mention that you know he has been copying text and are not ok with it. Also, where there is competition, it may be worth focusing on what makes your guiding company the best in the region. Potential visitors will soon spot who is doing something original based on their experience, and who is simply copying and pasting. Something worth reading:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...ising-is-content-content-is-advertising.shtml

None of this should be taken as legal or business advice though :-O

I greatly suspect that the proliferation of guides is due to the high cost of tours and that cutting out the 'middle man' i.e the tour company, helps reduce the cost greatly for the birder.

As an individual who cannot usually afford a company tour price, finding independants of good repute is often the best way forward though I don't condone the plagiarism.

Don't forget that the companies would be nothing without the guides and make a lot of money from them directly, they are everything and a companies reputation will rise or fall mainly on their guides abilities.

Many birders don't care about 'originality' or the 'slogan', they look at the price and the reputation and reliability of the guide.


A

I noticed I had put the wrong screen shots up. They have been corrected now. Note that even the part mentioning Kolibri Expedition's (my company) famous field lunches is there. And my spelling mistakes too.

Captain_of_Crunch said:

On a semantic but important point, what is happening is plagiarism and not stealing. :-O

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Maybe in your semantics, but in mine, plagiarism is absolutely a form of theft/stealing. It's use of another's words without attribution and/or permission. Just because we are dealing with intellectual rather than tangible property doesn't change the character of the act.

That said, I expect Omar would reference in his defense the fact that both he and his company are Peruvian natives. The companies he is stealing from are founded by non-natives and have been profiting from the natural wonders of "his" country, so they "owe" the natives. While I don't think that that excuses his actions, I think it casts them in a more sympathetic light. Though I should add I have no personal experience of working with his company, and am in no way recommending his tours.

Jim M. said:

That said, I expect Omar would reference in his defense the fact that both he and his company are Peruvian natives. The companies he is stealing from are founded by non-natives and have been profiting from the natural wonders of "his" country, so they "owe" the natives. While I don't think that that excuses his actions, I think it casts them in a more sympathetic light. Though I should add I have no personal experience of working with his company, and am in no way recommending his tours.

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No, that's pure speculation on your part. Alt facts if you will. Either you know the guy and are privy to his thoughts or you are same as the rest of us - ill informed by standers...

And that's me being civil...

The irony of this thread is that it's probably, actually having the effect of increasing the traffic to the other guys site!

Regarding 'intellectual property', I'm not sure a physical description of anything, in this case tours, constitutes such?

Still not a great thing to do, whilst ethically questionable, I doubt that there's any actionable offence here?

A

I agree with Andy about the high cost of the Tour company schedules. When we did Ecuador, we hired the services of an Independent Ecuadorian birder and visited all the usual reserves and lodges , however, we stayed in Ecuadorian run accommodation and saved a load. The big lodges are often foreign-owned and charge high prices.to stay but only ,say $20 to visit for the day. Interestingly, a group using a tour company, and staying at all the lodges ran parallel with our group - we kept bumping into them at most sites. When we compared what we'd seen , they were a bit miffed , especially as they'd paid much more !

andyadcock said:

The irony of this thread is that it's probably, actually having the effect of increasing the traffic to the other guys site!

Regarding 'intellectual property', I'm not sure a physical description of anything, in this case tours, constitutes such?

Still not a great thing to do, whilst ethically questionable, I doubt that there's any actionable offence here?

A

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A copyrighted brochure most certainly constitutes intellectual property: the photographer has a separate claim as he has only licensed the original creators of the brochure to use his picture. Both have a case in law to sue the thief and can insist that his ISP either insists the offending material is removed or takes down the offending website. Otherwise they too become an accessory to the crime....

I hope the guide is not expecting to do further business with the company he has betrayed, and I wouldn't be surprised if word goes round to other companies of his bad character. I should imagine that lodges will be invited to consider whether they wish to continue allowing him and his parties in, or continue to receive the steady work provided by the tour companies.

Given that he will have to remove the materials he is pirating I hope he has a plan B or his ability to attract custom will rapidly fall off.

John

Farnboro John said:

A copyrighted brochure most certainly constitutes intellectual property: the photographer has a separate claim as he has only licensed the original creators of the brochure to use his picture. Both have a case in law to sue the thief and can insist that his ISP either insists the offending material is removed or takes down the offending website. Otherwise they too become an accessory to the crime....

I hope the guide is not expecting to do further business with the company he has betrayed, and I wouldn't be surprised if word goes round to other companies of his bad character. I should imagine that lodges will be invited to consider whether they wish to continue allowing him and his parties in, or continue to receive the steady work provided by the tour companies.

Given that he will have to remove the materials he is pirating I hope he has a plan B or his ability to attract custom will rapidly fall off.

John

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This is Peru John not the Old Bailey and most birders want a good deal regardless of ethics, not many people will have sympathy with the tour companies. It's not exactly taking the food off their table is it?

Whilst it's good manners to ask a photograpehr if you can use his / her picture, you have to register or declare a copyright and I'm certain that you cannot copyright an itinerary!



A

andyadcock said:

This is Peru John not the Old Bailey and most birders want a good deal regardless of ethics, not many people will have sympathy with the tour companies. It's not exactly taking the food off their table is it?

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Inclined to agree with this - regardless of the wrongs of this, they have merely copied stuff off another website. Your average consumer in Europe couldn't care less about this, I would suppose (but stand to be corrected) that those in Peru even less so.

Although someone too lazy to write their own webpage would for me suggest they might cut corners elsewhere, and would probably lead to me avoid them for that reason.

Mysticete said:

Although someone too lazy to write their own webpage would for me suggest they might cut corners elsewhere, and would probably lead to me avoid them for that reason.

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I would guess that it's probably more due to the fact that English isn't his first language and to some, poor grammar may be taken as an indication that the rest of the service might be sub par so he lifted it from elsewhere?

I personally don't think it's crime of the century, he's just trying to make a living in a very competitive arena.


A

andyadcock said:

This is Peru John not the Old Bailey and most birders want a good deal regardless of ethics, not many people will have sympathy with the tour companies. It's not exactly taking the food off their table is it?

Whilst it's good manners to ask a photograpehr if you can use his / her picture, you have to register or declare a copyright and I'm certain that you cannot copyright an itinerary!



A

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You can declare a copyright very easily and actually the clue is in the word "right" means exactly what it says. It is inherent. Likewise if you look even at your Naturetrek brochure you will find it is copyrighted, and this means that regardless of the tour guide's knowledge he cannot copy the exact brochure without committing a crime. The author of a work holds the copyright in it. Others have to obtain a license to use it.

The tour companies may well take the attitude that what one gets away with, another may try, and that what happens to one company today could happen to another next week. It would be well worth all their whiles long-term to hammer this bloke flat now.

As for the ISP, I know of quite a few photographers that have gone after people on the other side of the world that they have found abusing copyright and have had the offending materials removed from the Internet as well as issuing invoices for a fee for use of the photograph to the offender and then pursuing them through the courts for not only the fee but breach of copyright damages. Ever seen a notice that illegal copying is killing music? This is the same. It's crooked and it should be prosecuted.

I wonder, if you were in Peru on a tour, whether you would hope/expect to interest the authorities in a crime against you? This is a country with a constititution, police, a judiciary, that involves itself in international trade and diplomacy, has its own internet suppliers etc and, naturally, its own businesses and artists that expect both domestic and international IP laws to be respected. Its infrastructure may not be Western European but its not Dodge City either. Few places are these days.

John

McMadd said:

No, that's pure speculation on your part. Alt facts if you will. Either you know the guy and are privy to his thoughts or you are same as the rest of us - ill informed by standers...

And that's me being civil...

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No idea what you are getting so worked up about; please try to relax before firing off a heated post to someone who is merely trying to contribute to the discussion. I never implied I was doing anything but speculating, and was clearly setting forth an argument--not my own views. But now that you ask, I have communicated with him in the past, and his is the main native run Peruvian bird tour company that I'm aware of. I've also read on his website that he views being native as a plus. The other main Peru-based companies are Gunnar's, founded by a scandinavian, and Manu Exps, founded by a brit. So it is a logical assumption in my view; you don't need to know someone personally to make an educated guess as to what their views might be. And whether he actually holds that view or not is actually beside the point; my point is that, in my view, it makes me more sympathetic to his plight, but does not excuse it.

When I tried to contact Manu in the past I never got a reply despite trying over several weeks?


A

Birding Peru said:

,Note that even the part mentioning Kolibri Expedition's (my company) famous field lunches is there.

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Looking forward to them, looking forward!

You did the right thing - publicized the story. In cases when legal action is futile, messing somebody's opinion - in a legitimate case - is the best attack one can do.

Jim M. said:

No idea what you are getting so worked up about; please try to relax before firing off a heated post to someone who is merely trying to contribute to the discussion.

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Making assumptions again there boyo...I'm quite relaxed as I'm just back from a birding trip of my own...

You contributed, I counter-contributed...

McMadd said:

Making assumptions again there boyo...I'm quite relaxed as I'm just back from a birding trip of my own...

You contributed, I counter-contributed...

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Got to agree there McMadd, seemed on the verge of unneccessary unpleasantness, especially the sign off line.

A