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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Compacts, again. Leica vs. Nikon? (1 Viewer)

kristoffer

kristoffer

Used Register
Hello everyone.
A while ago I searched for a pair of 8x20 bins to take with me all the time. First I tried a pair of cheap Nikons but they were faulty out of the box so I sent them back and got a refund. I decided to buy the Leica Trinovids 8x20, and I really like them. The image they provide is very good, they outperformed my Vipers, and they are truly pocketable.

However I do want a pair that is waterproof and gasfilled since I use them so much. I believe that I have narrowed down my choice to either the Ultravids 8x20 (since they are only better then my Trinovids) or the Nikon Premier LX L 8x20. I was curious about the Zeiss Victory 8x20 but I heard bad stuff about the small focus wheel and I decided it was a deal breaker.

So are there any other options from lets say Vortex or other company out there or should I just buy one of these? Note that I don´t want anything bigger then these two, no porros or 8x25 etc. and I want a image as good or better then my Trinovids offer. Anyone own both or has tried both long enough to give some opinions?
 
kristoffer said:
Hello everyone.
A while ago I searched for a pair of 8x20 bins to take with me all the time. First I tried a pair of cheap Nikons but they were faulty out of the box so I sent them back and got a refund. I decided to buy the Leica Trinovids 8x20, and I really like them. The image they provide is very good, they outperformed my Vipers, and they are truly pocketable.

However I do want a pair that is waterproof and gasfilled since I use them so much. I believe that I have narrowed down my choice to either the Ultravids 8x20 (since they are only better then my Trinovids) or the Nikon Premier LX L 8x20. I was curious about the Zeiss Victory 8x20 but I heard bad stuff about the small focus wheel and I decided it was a deal breaker.

So are there any other options from lets say Vortex or other company out there or should I just buy one of these? Note that I don´t want anything bigger then these two, no porros or 8x25 etc. and I want a image as good or better then my Trinovids offer. Anyone own both or has tried both long enough to give some opinions?
Click to expand...

I have had them all. I actually liked the Trinovids the best but if you have to have to have waterproofness I would go with the Ultravids. I liked the Nikon's the least of the three. IMO I think the Leica's just work better optically and ergonomically. They are just cooler to look at if you know what I mean and hold their value better if you resell them. I would get the rubberized ones. I bought the Trinovids on E-bay for $300.00 and the Ultravids for $400.00. I also much prefer the 8x20's.

Dennis
 
Hi,
thanks for your reply.
What did you prefer about the trinovid? Interesting view, I have never heard anything that actually was better about the trino before.


[email protected] said:
I have had them all. I actually liked the Trinovids the best but if you have to have to have waterproofness I would go with the Ultravids. I liked the Nikon's the least of the three. IMO I think the Leica's just work better optically and ergonomically. They are just cooler to look at if you know what I mean and hold their value better if you resell them. I would get the rubberized ones. I bought the Trinovids on E-bay for $300.00 and the Ultravids for $400.00. I also much prefer the 8x20's.

Dennis
Click to expand...
 
My least favorite are the Nikon LX because of the focus knob position and their slightly greater bulk. As for Zeiss Victory versus Leica Ultravid, I own both in 8x20, and I'm not sure I prefer one over the other. My original (older, silver coated) Victory didn't handle backlight as well as the unit I now have (dielectric coated, sent as warranty replacement for my original), which seems every bit as good as the Ultravid. I'd say they're also tied for best ergonomics, with perhaps a slight edge to the Ultravid for its big focus knob. Nevertheless, the "little knob" on my Zeiss works very well--it is silky smooth and has a nice gear ratio. I think it would be a mistake not take a look at the Zeiss. As for armored versus leather/faux leather Ultravid, I chose the latter for its lower weight and slightly smaller size. These binos are small (low mass) and live around my neck on a strap, either hanging or tucked into a shirt pocket if I'm working with my camera. I don't see the need for rubber armor--the covering on the "unarmored" version is quite tough. Mine have endured much use and sweat etc over the past several years and they look as good as new.

--AP

P.S. I don't think there is any question that the Ultravid are optically MUCH superior to the Trinovid (brighter, better stray light control, better edge performance), and I'd imagine most folks would perfer the ergonomics of the Ultravid after experimenting w/how to adjust them.
 
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kristoffer said:
Hi,
thanks for your reply.
What did you prefer about the trinovid? Interesting view, I have never heard anything that actually was better about the trino before.
Click to expand...

With the Ultravid I had more problems with blackouts than the Trinovids.That often times is a personal thing with how they fit your face etc. I just found the Ultravids more finicky and the Trinovids to me presented a more relaxed view with eye placement less critical. I really feel you have the very best compact in your hands if you have the Leica Trinovid but again that is my opinion. I know the Ultravids are SUPPOSED to be better than the Trinovids and to alot of people they are but to me eyes they were not! I tried them side by side and every which way. If I was to get another pair of compacts they would be Leica Trinovids in an 8x20(rubber,because you can drop them on a rock and it won't hurt them).

Dennis
 
Ok,
interesting to hear. Thanks for your input!


[email protected] said:
With the Ultravid I had more problems with blackouts than the Trinovids.That often times is a personal thing with how they fit your face etc. I just found the Ultravids more finicky and the Trinovids to me presented a more relaxed view with eye placement less critical. I really feel you have the very best compact in your hands if you have the Leica Trinovid but again that is my opinion. I know the Ultravids are SUPPOSED to be better than the Trinovids and to alot of people they are but to me eyes they were not! I tried them side by side and every which way. If I was to get another pair of compacts they would be Leica Trinovids in an 8x20(rubber,because you can drop them on a rock and it won't hurt them).

Dennis
Click to expand...
 
So you have not experienced problems with the small knob, especially in cold weather? If the knob does work good I am very interested in the Zeiss, I really like the idea of a single hinge.

Do you know if the dielectric coating is related to when Zeiss changed the carrying case they sent along with the binocular? I saw a Victory 8x20 on Ebay, for a cheap price, where the seller claimed that the price on the Victory increased when they changed the case from cordura to leather, without any other optical changes to the bin.

"last year zeiss decided to no longer offer this binocular with a cordura cloth case and to start offering it with a leather case. They raised the price to $649.99 when they did this. We stepped in and purchased all the remaining inventory of the version with the cloth case. The binoculars are identical, the only change was the case. We are now offering this binocular here on ebay at a very great price. Don't miss out on this great opportunity."



Alexis Powell said:
My least favorite are the Nikon LX because of the focus knob position and their slightly greater bulk. As for Zeiss Victory versus Leica Ultravid, I own both in 8x20, and I'm not sure I prefer one over the other. My original (older, silver coated) Victory didn't handle backlight as well as the unit I now have (dielectric coated, sent as warranty replacement for my original), which seems every bit as good as the Ultravid. I'd say they're also tied for best ergonomics, with perhaps a slight edge to the Ultravid for its big focus knob. Nevertheless, the "little knob" on my Zeiss works very well--it is silky smooth and has a nice gear ratio. I think it would be a mistake not take a look at the Zeiss. As for armored versus leather/faux leather Ultravid, I chose the latter for its lower weight and slightly smaller size. These binos are small (low mass) and live around my neck on a strap, either hanging or tucked into a shirt pocket if I'm working with my camera. I don't see the need for rubber armor--the covering on the "unarmored" version is quite tough. Mine have endured much use and sweat etc over the past several years and they look as good as new.

--AP

P.S. I don't think there is any question that the Ultravid are optically MUCH superior to the Trinovid (brighter, better stray light control, better edge performance), and I'd imagine most folks would perfer the ergonomics of the Ultravid after experimenting w/how to adjust them.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
We've talked about that Zeiss coating change before but have not managed to nail it down. A search of the forum reveals some serial numbers that have it and don't have it.

I have one of the cloth case Zeiss but if I were guessing I think it might be dielectric coated. The view doesn't look "warm" enough to be silver coated especially compared to the only silver coated Zeiss I have (a Conquest 8x30) but that's just a feeling not a certainty).

Alexis has had both!
 
Ok, thanks. Do you agree that the focus knob is not a big issue?

Kevin Purcell said:
We've talked about that Zeiss coating change before but have not managed to nail it down. A search of the forum reveals some serial numbers that have it and don't have it.

I have one of the cloth case Zeiss but if I were guessing I think it might be dielectric coated. The view doesn't look "warm" enough to be silver coated especially compared to the only silver coated Zeiss I have (a Conquest 8x30) but that's just a feeling not a certainty).

Alexis has had both!
Click to expand...
 
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For the all weather birder - waterproof is not a luxury it is a requirement.
I worry less about rain than mist and internal condensation from weather changes etc. which penetrates everything.

I like the Zeiss – small knob was not a problem for me. I agree with Alexis, mine showed internal reflection or flare when viewing back lit subjects. Here in the USA the Zeiss come with a lifetime transferable warranty so if that applies in your country it might make an Ebay purchase more attractive. Other than back lit the image was excellent.
BUT after reading APs posts about the backlight situation I tried the Ultravid and sold the Zeiss after comparison in back lit situations. The advantage on backlighting the Ultravid had was big enough for me to make the switch.

The Zeiss fabric case is still available in the USA I prefer the fabric case and use it on the Leica and Nikon 10x25s we own. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/328208-REG/Zeiss_52_90_33_Victory_10x25_Binocular_Pouch.html I can open it with one hand and take the bins out with one hand. This is a big help when holding the bicycle (or a drink) with the other hand.

Having owned all 3 of these bins I can say they are all worth the money in my opinion.
They are tack sharp and provide constant joy in my life. I have not seen any credible reports that the Trinovid is superior or equal to the Ultravid. I do admit that some eyes can not see the difference so I justify my opinion that way.

To my eyes the Ultravid and Nikon are the leaders of the 3

On a small binocular like these (which are not a replacement for a larger binocular when available) I expected to make some compromise.

In my mind the compromise on the Zeiss was the backlighting flare. But a great view in other conditions. On the Nikon it’s the neck strap attachment point (not a big deal at all). It comes with a leather case too (silent magnetic closure) which we dumped in favor of the Zeiss nylon case with noisy Velcro. Focus knob on the front was a non issue for me.

On the Leica I somehow feel the view is a little cramped to my eyes when compared to the Nikon. But the Leica is my favorite (I do sometimes switch that opinion to the Nikon at times. But I limit myself to changing my prefrence to 5 times a day).

On the positive side –
The Zeiss are very rugged and waterproof. Nice eyecups. Very light weight (glass reinforced composite body) I have focused them with gloves on – no problem. The off center fold point and knob were not a problem for me. They felt good in my hand and on my face. Love the fabric case enough to buy it for my other small bins.

Nikon is built like a truck. Great visual focus. The bird pops into sharp focus. You know when you’re dead on focus. Nikon is the only bin in this size that uses ED glass. Some may disagree but I see superior color due to the ED glass in low light. Focus knob is not a problem The view is easy on the eyes and feels more spacious when you look in them. Cost vs performance leader! T

Leica Small compact and an a view that is equal to the Nikon or superior depending on what your looking at. Flare is well controlled (but there is still some. Eye cups are slide up rather than twist up. I use the Leica nylon case when walking and the Zeiss case when bicycling.

If you purchase any of these 3, I doubt you will be let down. If you think at all you may be using these often – I would go for the best glass I could afford (even if it means saving longer or selling something you do not need as badly - like a kidney). They truly are a joy to use.

If I had it to do over I would go with the Ultravid or the Nikon. But I could live with the Zeiss.

Have fun!
TVC
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1534.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1535.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1536.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1537.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1538.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1539.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1540.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1541.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1543.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1544.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1545.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1546.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1547.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1548.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1552.jpg
 
Last edited:
Thanks a lot! Really a perfect reply since you owned all three and can give all the pros and cons of them. It was most helpful and I also appreciated your photos for comparison between two of the models.

I do use my compact often, at least a few times a day so for me the price is justified. And the low weight around my shoulders is a big bonus, I often tend to pick the 8x20 when I go out as long as dusk isn´t approaching.




Tvc15_2000 said:
For the all weather birder - waterproof is not a luxury it is a requirement.
I worry less about rain than mist and internal condensation from weather changes etc. which penetrates everything.

I like the Zeiss – small knob was not a problem for me. I agree with Alexis, mine showed internal reflection or flare when viewing back lit subjects. Here in the USA the Zeiss come with a lifetime transferable warranty so if that applies in your country it might make an Ebay purchase more attractive. Other than back lit the image was excellent.
BUT after reading APs posts about the backlight situation I tried the Ultravid and sold the Zeiss after comparison in back lit situations. The advantage on backlighting the Ultravid had was big enough for me to make the switch.

The Zeiss fabric case is still available in the USA I prefer the fabric case and use it on the Leica and Nikon 10x25s we own. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/328208-REG/Zeiss_52_90_33_Victory_10x25_Binocular_Pouch.html I can open it with one hand and take the bins out with one hand. This is a big help when holding the bicycle (or a drink) with the other hand.

Having owned all 3 of these bins I can say they are all worth the money in my opinion.
They are tack sharp and provide constant joy in my life. I have not seen any credible reports that the Trinovid is superior or equal to the Ultravid. I do admit that some eyes can not see the difference so I justify my opinion that way.

To my eyes the Ultravid and Nikon are the leaders of the 3

On a small binocular like these (which are not a replacement for a larger binocular when available) I expected to make some compromise.

In my mind the compromise on the Zeiss was the backlighting flare. But a great view in other conditions. On the Nikon it’s the neck strap attachment point (not a big deal at all). It comes with a leather case too (silent magnetic closure) which we dumped in favor of the Zeiss nylon case with noisy Velcro. Focus knob on the front was a non issue for me.

On the Leica I somehow feel the view is a little cramped to my eyes when compared to the Nikon. But the Leica is my favorite (I do sometimes switch that opinion to the Nikon at times. But I limit myself to changing my prefrence to 5 times a day).

On the positive side –
The Zeiss are very rugged and waterproof. Nice eyecups. Very light weight (glass reinforced composite body) I have focused them with gloves on – no problem. The off center fold point and knob were not a problem for me. They felt good in my hand and on my face. Love the fabric case enough to buy it for my other small bins.

Nikon is built like a truck. Great visual focus. The bird pops into sharp focus. You know when you’re dead on focus. Nikon is the only bin in this size that uses ED glass. Some may disagree but I see superior color due to the ED glass in low light. Focus knob is not a problem The view is easy on the eyes and feels more spacious when you look in them. Cost vs performance leader! T

Leica Small compact and an a view that is equal to the Nikon or superior depending on what your looking at. Flare is well controlled (but there is still some. Eye cups are slide up rather than twist up. I use the Leica nylon case when walking and the Zeiss case when bicycling.

If you purchase any of these 3, I doubt you will be let down. If you think at all you may be using these often – I would go for the best glass I could afford (even if it means saving longer or selling something you do not need as badly - like a kidney). They truly are a joy to use.

If I had it to do over I would go with the Ultravid or the Nikon. But I could live with the Zeiss.

Have fun!
TVC
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1534.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1535.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1536.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1537.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1538.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1539.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1540.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1541.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1543.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1544.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1545.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1546.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1547.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1548.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_1552.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Thank You. It is a pleasure to discuss these optics.

If I had to decide between the Leica and the Nikon today I would have great difficulty deciding and I am thankful I do not have to make that choice today and I wish you good luck with your decision.

Hopefully more people will post their suggestions and experiences.

Fall migration is becoming more and more active on the flyway I live on and it is a good time to have high quality optics with me at all times. Any binocular is better than no binocular.

Good Briding
TVC

Below are photos of the Nikon and the Leica.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0373-1.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0374.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0375.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0376.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0377.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0378.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0379.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0380.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0382.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0384.jpg
 
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Yeah, it is a tough choice, however I know I will be pleased regardless of model. I almost wish the Zeiss was better, since a single hinge is easier to use. I have noted that Nikons EDG line does that include a new 20 mm bin, shame because it would be interesting with a new alpha compact. Strange that so few compacts are really good. Thanks again for the pictures. The leica is more pretty for sure ;)



Tvc15_2000 said:
Thank You. It is a pleasure to discuss these optics.

If I had to decide between the Leica and the Nikon today I would have great difficulty deciding and I am thankful I do not have to make that choice today and I wish you good luck with your decision.

Hopefully more people will post their suggestions and experiences.

Fall migration is becoming more and more active on the flyway I live on and it is a good time to have high quality optics with me at all times. Any binocular is better than no binocular.

Good Briding
TVC

Below are photos of the Nikon and the Leica.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0373-1.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0374.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0375.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0376.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0377.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0378.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0379.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0380.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0382.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/datahead2000/IMG_0384.jpg
Click to expand...
 
What a great review, makes me feel like I was comparison shopping again, I wish. Just wanted to add that the focus wheel on the Zeiss is small but on mine it is very smooth. The Victory model with the single hinge is so ergonomic it feels like an extension of my hand. I rarely use the strap and just grasp it as I walk. Love having it along on business trips.

Question, since this single hinge design seems to be so functional and desirable, why doesn't Zeiss make a full size bino using the single hinge design.
 
Kevin Purcell said:
After those Design Selection bins that had three hinges ... that was a bad time for Zeiss ;)
Click to expand...

I understand that during that time one of the engineers suffered from an exceedingly high nose bridge to the degree that his eyes were nearly on the same plane as his nostrils, an unfortunate birth defect. Why the marketing people signed off on the "articulated hinge" Design Selections is still a mystery.

Quite the collector's item though. |>|
 
Last edited:
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