Nikon EDG series (2 Viewers)

Argon · Nov 13, 2009

Kevin Purcell said:
Has anyone tried a shipped EDG with eyeglasses they might comment on the excessive eye relief issues that are brought up. This varies from person to person but kidney-beaning is very annoying especially for an expensive new bin. After market O-rings, anyone

Realizing that it has been some time since this post - one comment piqued my curiosity. The after market O-rings - How are you suggesting that after market O-rings be applied? Is it that you would slip or roll the ring over the ocular barrel and use it as a stop? I have an older model Pentax that has pop up eyecups that inevitably push down and have been trying to come up with a way to prevent. This sounds intriguing. Of course, the reason I am reading this thread is that I am saving up for an upgrade....but in the meantime......

brocknroller · Nov 13, 2009

Argon said:
Realizing that it has been some time since this post - one comment piqued my curiosity. The after market O-rings - How are you suggesting that after market O-rings be applied? Is it that you would slip or roll the ring over the ocular barrel and use it as a stop? I have an older model Pentax that has pop up eyecups that inevitably push down and have been trying to come up with a way to prevent. This sounds intriguing. Of course, the reason I am reading this thread is that I am saving up for an upgrade....but in the meantime......

..... I could save myself $800 in buying a $1,200 first production demo if I found an O-Ring that would keep the focuser cap from popping off.

(wanted to complete that sentence since I've had the same thought

kristoffer · Nov 13, 2009

Btw, Nikon EDG is now marketed in Sweden. However it is the spotting scope line, so perhaps the binocular EDG is still put on hold. The EDG scope is as expensive as the Leica.. and not as good as the kowa/swaro/leica from what I have heard. Even if nikon promote them as "Class leading"

Argon · Nov 13, 2009

SO....Maybe I am not thinking of the O-ring in the right way. I am trying to come up with a method of preventing my pull-up eyecups from being inadvertently pushed down. Somehting that doesn't look hokey if possible.

Kammerdiner · Nov 13, 2009

I used a set of O-rings on a Pentax 8x42 WP (the original, not the WPII) and they worked great. The bin has 22mm of eye relief--probably too much for most anyone. Trouble was, the eye cups were either in or out. I wear glasses and had trouble with blackouts. I needed the cups out just a few mm so I bought a set of 0-rings that slipped over the eyecup and sat behind it when it was slightly extended. A snug fit, and they looked like part of the bin. They held the cups out a perfect distance. I used it that way for ten years with never a blackout.

If you needed more distance I guess you could use multiple O-rings, but then it might start to look a little odd.

Just be prepared for some odd looks as you hold O-rings up to a binocular in the plumbing section of the hardware store.

Argon · Nov 13, 2009

Kammerdiner said:
I used a set of O-rings on a Pentax 8x42 WP (the original, not the WPII) and they worked great. The bin has 22mm of eye relief--probably too much for most anyone. Trouble was, the eye cups were either in or out. I wear glasses and had trouble with blackouts. I needed the cups out just a few mm so I bought a set of 0-rings that slipped over the eyecup and sat behind it when it was slightly extended. A snug fit, and they looked like part of the bin. They held the cups out a perfect distance. I used it that way for ten years with never a blackout.

If you needed more distance I guess you could use multiple O-rings, but then it might start to look a little odd.

Just be prepared for some odd looks as you hold O-rings up to a binocular in the plumbing section of the hardware store.

Excellent. That is exactly what I was imagining - I have the WP as well. I don't wear glasses - my issue is that I will have inadvertently pushed one of the eyecups either partially or all the way in and when I bring the bins up, I have blackout in one or both eyes. This may be stretching it, I don't suppose you remember what size O-ring worked?

Kammerdiner · Nov 13, 2009

If I still owned them I could tell you because I kept the O-ring packaging in case the rings ever split and I needed new ones. Alas, I sold the bins earlier this year.

I don't know if the rings will reliably hold the cups all the way out. It was a tight fit so maybe they would. In my case they acted more like a 3mm spacer, with the cups snug against them.

BTW, that WP is a nice bin. Super sharp in the center, with a big relaxed view. I kinda wish I had kept them.

ronh · Nov 14, 2009

Argon,
I had that situation with my Leica Trinovid, which slid all the way up or down, but I needed an in between position.

I took a cylindrical plastic bottle, something like pills come in, made out some stiff but thin plastic, with an inside diameter a little smaller than the diameter of the sliding part of the eyepiece. I then cut out two rings of the required thickness, and slit them so they would slip over the sliding section, supporting the eyepieces firmly at the correct height. If it's very bright and I need sunglasses, I slip them off and lower the eyepieces.
Ron

Argon · Nov 14, 2009

Kammerdiner said:
If I still owned them I could tell you because I kept the O-ring packaging in case the rings ever split and I needed new ones. Alas, I sold the bins earlier this year.

I don't know if the rings will reliably hold the cups all the way out. It was a tight fit so maybe they would. In my case they acted more like a 3mm spacer, with the cups snug against them.

BTW, that WP is a nice bin. Super sharp in the center, with a big relaxed view. I kinda wish I had kept them.

My Bins are at Pentax right now - but the way I remember them, the eyecup cylinders are 2 different diameters. The bigger part that you pull up and a smaller diameter underneath. Were you able to find an O-ring that would expand enought to roll over the larger diameter but still fit tight on the smaller diameter part of the cylinders?

NDhunter · Nov 14, 2009

Argon said:
My Bins are at Pentax right now - but the way I remember them, the eyecup cylinders are 2 different diameters. The bigger part that you pull up and a smaller diameter underneath. Were you able to find an O-ring that would expand enought to roll over the larger diameter but still fit tight on the smaller diameter part of the cylinders?

I would go to either an auto parts store, hardware store, or farm supply store, and you can probably buy an assortment of 0-rings for $5.00, then you can try various sizes and add 2 if needed. This will take a little effort. Most o-rings should stretch over and tighten where needed.

Jerry

Kammerdiner · Nov 14, 2009

Argon said:
Were you able to find an O-ring that would expand enought to roll over the larger diameter but still fit tight on the smaller diameter part of the cylinders?

Yup, they're rubber and stretch. And it was a good, tight fit, too, although like I said it didn't actually hold the eyecups out. It was just a spacer.

Ronh's idea sounds like a good fix, although the aesthetics of the thing might suffer. Maybe start with a black plastic Kodak film canister? Assuming they still exist?

And then, of course, there's always duct tape.

Mark

Ardy · Nov 14, 2009

Kammerdiner said:
Yup, they're rubber and stretch. And it was a good, tight fit, too, although like I said it didn't actually hold the eyecups out. It was just a spacer.

Ronh's idea sounds like a good fix, although the aesthetics of the thing might suffer. Maybe start with a black plastic Kodak film canister? Assuming they still exist?

And then, of course, there's always duct tape.

Mark

You could try it with a bike inner tube also.Just slice off a piece the length like Ronh described and slip it over the end.

KorHaan · Dec 2, 2009

Been following this thread with interest, including the reviews provided via the links.
The 7x42 states a 419 foot/1000yards FOV; isn't this a typo? The 7x42 FL has a
450 foot/1000y FOV, if I'm not mistaken.

Another thing is the fixed focus/diopter cap, not popping out inadvertently any more.
A firm detent, I read, was the fix. What I haven't read, and would like to know, is if the diopter setting itself has any detents? The 7x42 FL I owned had only one detent on the 'zero' position, the + or - diopter settings were without detents and were supposed to be locked in position with the diopter/focus cap down. Changing the IPD also made the diopter wander, I had issues with that.
How is that on the EDG's? Are there detents on the diopter scale?

Regards,

Ronald

NDhunter · Dec 2, 2009

KorHaan said:
Been following this thread with interest, including the reviews provided via the links.
The 7x42 states a 419 foot/1000yards FOV; isn't this a typo? The 7x42 FL has a
450 foot/1000y FOV, if I'm not mistaken.

Another thing is the fixed focus/diopter cap, not popping out inadvertently any more.
A firm detent, I read, was the fix. What I haven't read, and would like to know, is if the diopter setting itself has any detents? The 7x42 FL I owned had only one detent on the 'zero' position, the + or - diopter settings were without detents and were supposed to be locked in position with the diopter/focus cap down. Changing the IPD also made the diopter wander, I had issues with that.
How is that on the EDG's? Are there detents on the diopter scale?

Regards,

Ronald

The diopter is accessed by lifting the focuser ring to allow the diopter to be changed. Only then the diopter can be changed, it is fully adjustable without click stops, and when the focus knob is pushed down in detent, does not move. This is quite similar to the Swaro.
EL.

I hope this helps.

Jerry

KorHaan · Dec 2, 2009

NDhunter said:
The diopter is accessed by lifting the focuser ring to allow the diopter to be changed. Only then the diopter can be changed, it is fully adjustable without click stops, and when the focus knob is pushed down in detent, does not move. This is quite similar to the Swaro.
EL.

I hope this helps.

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for that.
Now I haven't seen the Swaro EL, but in their review of the 8.5x42 and the 10x42 EL the folks from Optics4birding state : (quote:

"The beauty is in the micro-click stops that provide fine adjustment with
three positions within each full diopter stop."

unquote)

So the EL does seem to have click-stops? The EDG's don't, which is all fine in theory but disqualifies them for me personally as I wouldn't trust them in practice.
One FL diopter disaster is quite enough for me, I'm not going to make the same mistake again for an even more expensive pair of binoculars.

Regards,

Ronald

KorHaan · Dec 2, 2009

Optics4birding states that the FOV is 459 foot/1000 yards for the 7x42 EDG,
443 foot/1000 yards for the 8x42 EDG, and 374 foot/1000 yards for the 10x42 EDG.

Regards,

Ronald

Alexis Powell · Dec 3, 2009

KorHaan said:
One FL diopter disaster is quite enough for me, I'm not going to make the same mistake again for an even more expensive pair of binoculars.

The first mistake you're making is attributing the problem you had with your FL to it's lack of detents, and the second is in assuming that its drifting diopter setting was a flaw shared by all units. The unit you had must have had a manufacturing defect.

The "firm detent" referred to w/respect to the Nikon redesign must refer to how firmly the focus knob locks into the forward position, not to whether there are detents between full diopter marks. The Optics4Birding claim that intermediate detents allow for greater precision is a good example of marketing misdirection--having no detents should be even better because it would allow for infinite adjustability!

As I recall, Leica introduced the central diopter control (in the Ultra/Trinovid BA models). Their very successful design lacks any detents (at least any that can be felt when setting the diopter--I don't know whether the design is actually infinitely adjustable), even at zero.

--AP

ceasar · Dec 3, 2009

The Leica Trinovid BA's Diopter doesn't have any detents. It is, AFAIK, infinitely adjustable. Once set it stays set. I haven't moved the diopter on my 7 x 42 for a long time now.

I did have a problem with a diopter mechanism of this type on a Vortex 6.5 x 32.
It "floated" with the focus knob and would not stay put. I returned it. Leica proved long ago that this type of diopter mechanism can work flawlessly. Those that don't work are likely samples of poor quality control or product design.
Bob

ronh · Dec 3, 2009

My Trinovid BA's diopter setting is smoothly adjustable without detents, and moreover, the setting is clearly and accurately viewed through a little window as a narrow black graticule hair moving across a neatly labeled white screen. It looks like research equipment, obviously somebody really cared about accurate diopter settings. There were a few reports here of the window getting cracked on some early Ultravids, I wonder if they have a larger window, or what caused that.

My Zeiss FL, on the other hand, has spongy-feeling detents, none exactly zero if you believe the scale,teeny-tiny little markings for the settings. For me the best setting is in between two detents, a most uncertain-feeling adjustment. It stays there ok, but I sure don't want it to get moved for fear of getting it set back right, and compared to the Leica, is a poor mechanism. "Set it and forget it", yeah, I'd like to forget it. KILLER views though!
Ron

KorHaan · Dec 3, 2009

Alexis Powell said:
The first mistake you're making is attributing the problem you had with your FL to it's lack of detents, and the second is in assuming that its drifting diopter setting was a flaw shared by all units. The unit you had must have had a manufacturing defect.

The "firm detent" referred to w/respect to the Nikon redesign must refer to how firmly the focus knob locks into the forward position, not to whether there are detents between full diopter marks. The Optics4Birding claim that intermediate detents allow for greater precision is a good example of marketing misdirection--having no detents should be even better because it would allow for infinite adjustability!

As I recall, Leica introduced the central diopter control (in the Ultra/Trinovid BA models). Their very successful design lacks any detents (at least any that can be felt when setting the diopter--I don't know whether the design is actually infinitely adjustable), even at zero.

--AP

We all make mistakes; when I bought the Fl I had already owned a Trinovid 10x32 with a detentless and flawless diopter, so I reckoned the Zeiss would be OK in this respect. It wasn't, though, and that is not what I expected for a new, 1500 euro pair of bins.
You say, it was a manufacturing defect; rightly so. But I'm the sort of customer who trusts the manufacturing precision and outstanding quality control of a renowned brand like Zeiss. If it's not good, that's it! One strike out! If Leica can do it and Zeiss can't, on ALL their binoculars, there must be something really lacking in the quality control department. Really lacking!
I don't trust them any more.

If you have no trouble with your FL's, that's great, enjoy them.
I want to see a diopter scale that I KNOW will stay where I set it. I've owned a zillion of binoculars with wandering diopters that were easily fixed by taping it down. The trouble with the new, under-the-focus-knob diopter mechanisms, is that you can't see it - except for the Leica's. You have to trust it won't move. I don't like that.
I only trust my eyes.

B

Kind regards,

Ronald

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