Keith Reeder
Watch the birdie...
OK John, I'm willing to be educated - what have the 40D and 400D in common at a component or a design level?
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30D, 40D, and 5D which has the best performance for the money? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CCRII
- Start date
Please let me put aside the context of this thread briefly just to get your opinions on the settings you might use to brighten a big bird ...
(a) perched on a rock against a bright (grey sky) background
(b) gliding above rocks against a bright (grey sky) background
I use Rebel + Canon EF 100-400 IS.
Clarke Robinson
Well-known member
I'd say it depends a lot on the colour of the bird and how much of the frame it fills. Generally speaking though, perhaps try +1EV where the sky is much brighter than the bird and the bird comes out under-exposed.
Clarke Robinson
Well-known member
BTW, I tend to agree with Keith (Reeder) on the 40D = 400D cafuffle, IMHO 400d is more of an upgraded 350D, a different product line from the 10-20-30-40D. I'd say the 350D and the 400D have more in common. That's just my opinion of course, everybody has one
Good luck to the other Keith on the new 40D purchase!
Good luck to the other Keith on the new 40D purchase!
kevindurose
Well-known member
Try using manual exposure, otherwise you will get black shapes against the sky. Point the camera at a similar coloured object or the bird in question and take a test shot, adjust shutter speed until you have the desired exposure then blast away. If the light changes e.g. if the sun comes out check your exposure and change shutter speed if necessary. For cloudy conditions use the coudy white balance setting.
Gary Clark
Registered User
IMHO, there is a clear choice: If you're doing landscapes, get a 5D. If you're primarily interested in wildlife, get a 40D. The pixel density is highest on the 40D, and since you'll be cropping most wildlife shots, you'll have more pixels to work with. The 1.6 sensor factor means your lenses are effectively 1.6X in focal length, which is the same as spending thousands more on lenses. The pixel density (173px/mm) on the 40D is the same as the ($8000) Canon EOS 1DS Mark III.
With the 5D, you'll have less pixels for the typical cropped wildlife shot, but for landscapes you'll have more pixels (because you won't be cropping as much) and a wider variety of available wide-angle and "normal" lenses.
With the 5D, you'll have less pixels for the typical cropped wildlife shot, but for landscapes you'll have more pixels (because you won't be cropping as much) and a wider variety of available wide-angle and "normal" lenses.
NecipP
New member
5D vs 40D
I have used the 5D for about 9mths now and recently I had a day out with my friends 40D. I used my Canon 300mm f2.8LIS. plus combinations of 1.4xII and 2xII Image Quality is no comparison 5D is still much better even if you have to crop a little more, I did find the focussing to be a little quicker in the 40D though for birds in flight using AIservo the 9 cross points on the 40D are excellent. 5D is still more sharper and accurate it has less AA filtering pixels are cleaner. I had thought of purchasing a 40D to complement the 5D I decided it would not be used in preference to the 5D in the end.
http://www.treknature.com/members/NecipP/photos/
http://www.treklens.com/members/NecipP/photos/
I have used the 5D for about 9mths now and recently I had a day out with my friends 40D. I used my Canon 300mm f2.8LIS. plus combinations of 1.4xII and 2xII Image Quality is no comparison 5D is still much better even if you have to crop a little more, I did find the focussing to be a little quicker in the 40D though for birds in flight using AIservo the 9 cross points on the 40D are excellent. 5D is still more sharper and accurate it has less AA filtering pixels are cleaner. I had thought of purchasing a 40D to complement the 5D I decided it would not be used in preference to the 5D in the end.
http://www.treknature.com/members/NecipP/photos/
http://www.treklens.com/members/NecipP/photos/
The 1.6 crop factor does not equate to a 1.6x boost in focal length. It just widens your field of view. I guess if your shooting for the web only then yeah you could maybe make this argument as you can crop around a bird that does not fill a frame to make a much smaller web shot. But if your printing A4 it just doesn't work. See the thread on crop factor in the canon section for more.
Modular
I'll leave this space empty
There's nothing Like a Juicy Comparison is there lol,
First off please don't think I'm "Rocking the Boat" ... I really ain't, And to
"Argue" Fact's etc amongst such a close Knit Family of Photographers is'nt
the Clever thing to do ... Especially when I know non of You lol,
Okay ... Anyone saying that a 350D or 400D does'nt capture Bird's well
in Flight or Perched need's to do there Homework ... Because we only
have to look at Gallery's to see that ... No arguement there, And I won't
argue that there's better Dslr's to do It ... Because there is ... The 30D and
the 40D are better, That's why I'm Buying a 40D,
Just to Echo what has already been said ... If Your Bird Appear's Dark
against a Sky ... Just Crank UP the Exposure and this with Level the
Brightness between the Two ... Same goe's the reverse, You can do a
few Other thing's to get the balance Right but concentrate on Exposure First,
Hello Mr G.Clark ... Hope Your Fine Sir ... Your right about the 5D and 40D,
But the Argument that the 40D has all You said ... Is exactly the Same as
the 400D ... Pixel Density is'nt an arguement ... The 40D and 400D win
that Hand's down compared to a 5D ... The 40D and 400D are pretty
much the Same but the 40D Work's Much better at handling the Noise, And
has a Much better Sensor, Fact is the 40D sensor IS based on the 400D
sensor ... But has been massively improved,
I alway's thought that Canon should have included a Dust Blower with the
5D ... As an accessorie in the Box, All the People I know that use 5D's will
have to "Blow" the sensor at least Once a Week ... THATS why the new
40D COPIED the 400D's Dust Shaker ... Which if my memory serve's Me
right ... Olympus Invented ... I know Canon was'nt the First with
this Feature ... But We know that the 40D is using the 400D's cleaning
method,
Hello Keith ,
How could I educate You?, Your Picture's show Me your Educated in This
Field We all Call "Photography", It surely is'nt Luck eh?, Can We all stick a
100-400 on a 30D and take the Forum by storm? ... Of course not!,
Does Post Processing Improve Your Photo's? ... Of Course!,
Does "IS" help the Photo? ... Sure does , But were not talking about
Your Photo's are We Keith ... No were Talking about Comparison's between
the 40D and 400D ...
I never said Once that they are the SAME or they are totally DIFFERENT,
You said they are totally a Different Camera ... That I will still state your
wrong ... You are Wrong lol ... They have too much in common to be
Totally different, I'll never argue the Difference's ... I know there is and
that's why I'm purchasing a 40D ... The Dust Shaker alone IS passed on
from the 400D ... Please don't tell Me that it was'nt ... The Menu is the
Same ... Again from the 400D, There is a lot more the "Same" But mostly
improved,
See ... I did'nt Educate You at all lol ... Maybe You should Line the Spec's
of the 40D and 400D side by side and Show Me that there's nothing at all
in Common with each other ... Or Passed over from the 400D ... Once You
have done this ... Which You can't lol ... I'll Convert to what You think ,
Remember Keith ... Show Me How they are Totally a different Camera ...
NOT the Difference's or Improvement's that the 40D has ... BUT the
Absolutely uncomparison Of Both Camera's, I will await Your TOTAL
absolutely "Different Badge" Comparison to make them "Chalk and Cheese" ,
Got to say Keith ... I still Chuckle at this ,
,
Take Care,
John,
First off please don't think I'm "Rocking the Boat" ... I really ain't, And to
"Argue" Fact's etc amongst such a close Knit Family of Photographers is'nt
the Clever thing to do ... Especially when I know non of You lol,
Okay ... Anyone saying that a 350D or 400D does'nt capture Bird's well
in Flight or Perched need's to do there Homework ... Because we only
have to look at Gallery's to see that ... No arguement there, And I won't
argue that there's better Dslr's to do It ... Because there is ... The 30D and
the 40D are better, That's why I'm Buying a 40D,
Just to Echo what has already been said ... If Your Bird Appear's Dark
against a Sky ... Just Crank UP the Exposure and this with Level the
Brightness between the Two ... Same goe's the reverse, You can do a
few Other thing's to get the balance Right but concentrate on Exposure First,
Hello Mr G.Clark ... Hope Your Fine Sir ... Your right about the 5D and 40D,
But the Argument that the 40D has all You said ... Is exactly the Same as
the 400D ... Pixel Density is'nt an arguement ... The 40D and 400D win
that Hand's down compared to a 5D ... The 40D and 400D are pretty
much the Same but the 40D Work's Much better at handling the Noise, And
has a Much better Sensor, Fact is the 40D sensor IS based on the 400D
sensor ... But has been massively improved,
I alway's thought that Canon should have included a Dust Blower with the
5D ... As an accessorie in the Box, All the People I know that use 5D's will
have to "Blow" the sensor at least Once a Week ... THATS why the new
40D COPIED the 400D's Dust Shaker ... Which if my memory serve's Me
right ... Olympus Invented ... I know Canon was'nt the First with
this Feature ... But We know that the 40D is using the 400D's cleaning
method,
OK John, I'm willing to be educated - what have the 40D and 400D in common at a component or a design level?
Hello Keith
,How could I educate You?, Your Picture's show Me your Educated in This
Field We all Call "Photography", It surely is'nt Luck eh?, Can We all stick a
100-400 on a 30D and take the Forum by storm? ... Of course not!,
Does Post Processing Improve Your Photo's? ... Of Course!,
Does "IS" help the Photo? ... Sure does
, But were not talking about Your Photo's are We Keith ... No were Talking about Comparison's between
the 40D and 400D ...
I never said Once that they are the SAME or they are totally DIFFERENT,
You said they are totally a Different Camera ... That I will still state your
wrong ... You are Wrong lol ... They have too much in common to be
Totally different, I'll never argue the Difference's ... I know there is and
that's why I'm purchasing a 40D ... The Dust Shaker alone IS passed on
from the 400D ... Please don't tell Me that it was'nt ... The Menu is the
Same ... Again from the 400D, There is a lot more the "Same" But mostly
improved,
See ... I did'nt Educate You at all lol ... Maybe You should Line the Spec's
of the 40D and 400D side by side and Show Me that there's nothing at all
in Common with each other ... Or Passed over from the 400D ... Once You
have done this ... Which You can't lol ... I'll Convert to what You think
,Remember Keith ... Show Me How they are Totally a different Camera ...
NOT the Difference's or Improvement's that the 40D has ... BUT the
Absolutely uncomparison Of Both Camera's, I will await Your TOTAL
absolutely "Different Badge" Comparison to make them "Chalk and Cheese" ,
Got to say Keith ... I still Chuckle at this
,Happy Snapping
,Take Care,
John,
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Endless discussion
The fact that this issue is so endlessly discussed, both here and on other forums indicates to me that there is no clear winner overall. They're all wonderful pieces of kit and by far the largest limiting factor is the user. My mates just got a new 40D and the photographs he's been taking with it just blow me away, they look miles better than the ones I get with the same glass on my 30D. If the difference between the two camera bodies were really that big there would be no argument, however, the real reason they look so much better is that he's simply a better photographer than I am! Sickening, but true.
Chris
The fact that this issue is so endlessly discussed, both here and on other forums indicates to me that there is no clear winner overall. They're all wonderful pieces of kit and by far the largest limiting factor is the user. My mates just got a new 40D and the photographs he's been taking with it just blow me away, they look miles better than the ones I get with the same glass on my 30D. If the difference between the two camera bodies were really that big there would be no argument, however, the real reason they look so much better is that he's simply a better photographer than I am! Sickening, but true.
Chris
From seeing test photographs looks like the 40D is at least 50% better at noise handling in all ISOs over the 30D. Which is enough to sell me. It is also right there with the 5D in terms of noise handling. The 5D needs to come down quite a bit for it to even be considered here. I cannot believe how bipolar the pricing is on these things sometimes.
Roy C
Occasional bird snapper
I cannot see that myself - I have both and reckon there is not a lot in it as far as noise is concerned. I have read scores of reviews and comments on the 40D but have never come across anyone making a claim like this.
To my eye it looks loads better.
X -factor
And this in my view is a very valid statement. You can do all the measurements, all the analysis but there undoubtedly is still an intangible 'X' factor going on here. I'm always extremely impressed by well exposed 5D images although all the 'scientific' analysis suggests that there should not be that much difference, particularly at 8x10.
Chris
And this in my view is a very valid statement. You can do all the measurements, all the analysis but there undoubtedly is still an intangible 'X' factor going on here. I'm always extremely impressed by well exposed 5D images although all the 'scientific' analysis suggests that there should not be that much difference, particularly at 8x10.
Chris
Roy C
Occasional bird snapper
That's fair enough then if that's the way you see it. If I was really pushed to say what had the best low noise at say ISO 800 I would say that the 30D is very slightly better.
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K-Lex
Well-known member
Just an update to this fascinating thread. I've just bought the 40D this morning. I'm very impressed so far, how quick is 6.5fps?!!!!! I compared it to a 5D in the shop and by comparison almost got bored waiting for the next one to fire on the 5. It feels different to my 20D, can't quantify why and some of the buttons have moved. Feels well built and like it'll withstand a knock or 3. Have yet to give it a good thrashing in the field or my studio but will let you know how it performs in comparison.
Thanks Keith Reeder for the tip, you were right.
Keith
Thanks Keith Reeder for the tip, you were right.
Keith
Tannin
Common; sedentary.
I agree - and I own both the 40D and a 20D (same sensor as the 30D, for current purposes, the same camera). So far as noise is concerned, my ID III is the best, followed by the 20D, then the 40D (very small gap between these two), with the 400D last - but (let us note carefully), still very good even so.
I see that the new 1Ds III has the same pixel pitch as the wonderful old 20D/30D, and the same body as the 1D III .... that is tempting. very tempting. But I'm tired of battling to pay off the damn credit card all the time, only to see it go through the roof again. Might wait a while.
christineredgate
Winner of the Copeland Wildlife Photographer of th
Having read a review of the 40D in Digital Cam mag today,it seems that the 40D wins hands down.From the reviews,it seems to to be better than the 5D.
