camera dilemma! (1 Viewer)

right then.......

after my succesfull (although a right pain at times) scope dilemma thread, i now want a decent DSLR, and you lot can help me out again.

im really enjoying the digiscoping, but im after a DSLR to get those quality shots and not to mention flight shots etc.

i wont be sacking my digiscoping set-up, so dont think im tired of that allready!

cameras i have been looking at include:

konica minolta 7D - the one with built in IS, very nice indeed 6.1 MP.

nikon D70 6.1 MP, also the new D50 6.1MP, is it worth getting the cheaper but similar performance D50 over it's bigger brother????

canon EOS 20D 8.2MP, i have seen some breathtaking shots with this camera, but it is almost TWICE the price of the D50, is it worth it?

canon EOS 350D 8.0MP, an exellent right up, but not very nice to hold, can it perform like the pricey 20D?

anyone own/live with these cameras, help me out here, thanks.

again, i want to hear the plus points and the poor points of all these DSLR's, thanks.

Owning both D70 and D50 I would say - unless the extra features of the D70s are essential then go for the D50 and have more to spend on lenses. Handling is almost identical [the 70 has a few extra controls which in theory make it quicker to change things but with practice I don't notice much difference]. The D50 does seem to have a bit of an edge in image quality especially at higher ISOs which is useful in low light. I had a Canon 10D and was thinking of an upgrade to the 20D earlier this year but the cost was a bit steep [I did'nt have a load of expensive Canon glass] so I took advice from a pro photographer who uses Nikon but had been using a 20D for a while to see if he thought the extra money was worth spending. That advice together with reading reviews/looking at images etc. led me to swapping my 10D for a D70 and it's something I don't regret at all. The truth is that just about all the currently available DSLRs are OK - some have advantages over others in handling or in certain features for shooting particular things. One thing to remmber is that people who have invested in a 20D have often also invested a good deal in expensive Canon L lenses so to some degree that can be the difference you see in image quality - it could mean spending a lot of money! My own preference for the D70/50 is simply the ease of handling, the possibility of getting good sharp out of camera pictures with an average lens like my 135-400 Sigma [and VERY sharp out of camera pictures with my 80-200 f2.8 Nikkor], the ability to take long sequences of in flight shots without the camera having to play catch up [the curse of the 10D even in JPEG] etc.etc.
One day I might really get to grips with 'processing' and change my snaps into proper 'photographs' but for the moment i'm happy with my Nikons. Others will now come along and praise Canon - it's really just what suits the individual!

I hope this develops into as good a thread as your scope one did....

Personally I'm a Canon user and have the 350D, the image quality is excellent, basically as good as the 20D. In the hand feel was a concern of mine, but within the week I was totally used to the feel of it and very happy with it. I still found it a bit small, but the addition of the battery grip has helped, even with this it's a deal cheaper than the 20D.

I'm sure Canon users will recommend the Canons, and Nikon users the Nikons... I don't think you'll go far wrong with either. Personally I would not go for the Minolta - I think it's probably the worst value of the five options and there are lens issues. Companies like Sigma do not make all of there lenses in Minolta fit (though all are available for Canon and Nikon), so you'll have less lens choice and may have to pay more to buy 'official' rather than third party lenses.

Hi Salty I am a Canon 20D user but, I am not going to recommend any of the camera's on your shortlist.

I would in your shoes start of with the size and type of lens you will be ultimately hoping to use and then work backwards.

For instance if you are looking at using one of the Canon L lenses then to do it justice I think you need to lean towards the 20D. If you are thinking the Sigma route then perhaps the 350 would suffice. Also bear in mind there is no substitute for reach, a 500/600 lens will get you shots where a 300/400 will struggle.

Another thing to think about is converters, will they work with the lenses you have in mind Autofocus etc.

Hope this is of help

Pete

I have only been using my D50 since yesterday , but so far I can't fault it. It's very easy to use and seems to give clear images, even with the 135 -400 lens which some people said needed a tripod. I shot these photos yesterday and today. My main reason for buying was similar to you, I have been using the Opticron /kyocera kit on my ES 80 GA ED scope and had some good results but made my mind up to get a DSLR after missing so many photo opportunities on Holiday. I could of had in flight pictures of both Eagles not to mention very mobile Crested Tits in Scotland .However like you I can still see myself using the digiscoping kit as it has greater magnification than this 135-400 lens.

this is what im after folks, keep them coming in.

I am a 350d owner myself, and would probably reccomend that. I think the D70 and D50 are both overpriced, the 350d cost about the same and has a few extra features, and overall better image quality. Now the reason i would not say go for the 20d is that it is BETTER but not 500 USD better than the 350d. If feel is a concern, you can buy the BG-E3 Battery Grip for the 350d and use the extra few hundred Euro's you save from the 20d to go towards a nice piece of glass, such as the Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L, which is VERY reasonably priced and gives extraordinarily sharp images, it can also be used handheld without a tripod fairly easily, i am hoping to buy this lens myself within the upcoming months. I hope this helps

I agree with Michael, I opted for the 350D and used the cash saved to help towards the cost of the lenses, you will no doubt find you need/want several. I have recently bought the 400 5.6 prime and am very happy with the results. I would advise anyone to start with 350 and a 400mm if at all possible, you can always upgrade to a 20d or the next generation model and keep the 350 as a spare body. Whatever camera you buy Canon or Nikon, it will be considered dated far quicker than the lens that will give years of good service.

good luck
Jim

Hmmm... with all due respect to Michael, I'd say that any argument based on the "overall better image quality" of one camera over another is a very thin one - and probably impossible to prove, as it ignores the lens, the photographer, the tripod (or not) and a million other variables.

Plus it's my understanding that the D70 has more, rather than less, "bells and whistles" than the 350D.

Salty, get yourself into the gallery and look at as many images as you can stomach from each of your shortlist cameras, and assess from there which camera/lens seems to give you the best results of the kind you're looking to get.

Otherwise, as Postcardcv you're just going to get Nikon users recommending Nikon, Canon users suggesting Canon and so on.

What's your budget including lens(es)? You can get Markho's Nikon plus his lens for the price of the Canon 400mm prime recommended above..!

Without getting into the which is best argument in the UK you can get a D50 for just over 400.00 - overpriced??

My point exactly, GP - £400 for the camera (actually £396 - though admittedly that's Pixmania), £300 for the lens.

The Canon 400mm prime lens mentioned above (brilliant though it surely is) costs £874 from WE (more elsewhere)...

It's an important point.

Keith Reeder said:

What's your budget including lens(es)? You can get Markho's Nikon plus his lens for the price of the Canon 400mm prime recommended above..!

Click to expand...

This is true - however the image quality of teh Canon 400mm is far superior to the Sigma 135-400.

But it is important when working out which to go for to account for everything when you budge - camera, lenses, memory cards, extra battery...

yep, know all about how well priced the d50 is. and it is comfortable to use.

not sure about what lens to get though, id prefer a 100-400 or possibly a 500 at a push!

Hi Salty

A couple of thoughts/questions, having recently finished a similar decision process…
Have you used SLR kit before?
How much can you afford?

The answer to the first question may answer which body to choose – if you have used a particular brand of SLR before, then it may pay to stick with what you know. If you haven’t, then I think the best advice is to go and play with your short list in a shop!

The second question is all about the lens(es) you stick on the front. This may/should be the biggest cost of the set-up – bodies will be out-dated faster than good glass (therefore the desire or need to upgrade increases). For most general bird photography you are going to need at least 400mm…and then you will always want more…especially if you are used to digiscoping. The more you spend, the sharper and faster the lens, and therefore you have increased chance of better photographs (or that is the theory).

There was a similar thread recently with lots of useful stuff, in case you haven’t seen it:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=42764

I didn’t even consider anything other than Canon because I have used Canon EOS in the past. I settled on the 20d and a 400mm f5.6.

Cheers Mark.

Wotcha salty, a while back there were some flight pics posted by helenol of some kites

no idea what the kit was but i seem to remember it was dslr and the pics were brillo

this thread here ..... http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=39507

Check out the pictures in the Gallery and you won't find very much if any difference in the quality of shots being taken by the cams you have listed and IMHO you can't go wrong with any of them.

I've just moved over from a Canon 300D to a Minolta 5D and have no regrets what so ever, every lens I put on the cam is stabilized without any price hike and the handling is great.

Canon, Minolta and Nikon all produce there own Premium lenses if you want to spend the big bucks and there are plenty of third party lenses available for them all so don't be influenced by lens availability if you want the Minolta.

You have made a statement that I'm not sure is correct. You say you want a DSLR - well, maybe you do and maybe you don't.

I'm going to give a bunch of information here - most likely an overload but it is necessary if you are to really understand what you are getting into.

OK ... we are coming from the assumption that all of the use of this camera will be for bird photos. No need to complicate matters with talk about wide angle, macro or portrait lenses! Not intending to start a war but, as far as long telephoto lenses go, Canon's "L" series glass is the best made bar NONE. It is also the most expensive. A 500mm lens ($5500) will give you 16x magnification on a 20D or 350D. (500mm * 1.6 (sensor crop factor) / 50mm (1x))

There are various flavors of 400mm lenses costing from $1100 to $6500. They give you 12.8x. You can add a teleconverter to any of these lenses (perhaps at the loss of autofocus) for a 1.4x increase in focal lengths (and magnification).

Other companies also make glass for Canon (and Nikon) cameras. Some of it is very good. Some of it isn't. Canon "L" series glass holds about 85% of it's value on the used market. Glass from the other companies does not. Why? Take a guess!

The 20D and 350D may be capable of producing roughly equal quality photos under ideal conditions but when are conditions ideal? The 20D has much better low light response for autofocus and for exposure (up to 3200 ISO - and very clean at 800). The 20D is also much quicker from when you touch the shutter button to when the photo is taken. The 20D can also take photos at a machine gun fast rate (5 frames per second) and write them to the CF card almost as fast!

Bottom line - how much are you prepared to spend? There are some great non-slr digital cameras out there (10x optical) - check out all of the options before you commit to spending your childrens' inheritance on an SLR setup. It is an addiction, you will always need a longer or faster lens!

All that said - I have a 20D and an assortment of lenses. I came from (and still have) a digiscoping setup of a Swarovski ATS80HD and Nikon CP5000. A DSLR was right for me and it may be the right choice for you as well.

D50 photos

The only thing limiting this camera is my skill and my post processing abilities :-O

There are a few more photos in my gallery - All D50

Scott

D70 photos

...also somewhat limited by skill and ability at this time. Am only just getting to grips with proper RAW processing techniques!