Red-eyed Thornbird (1 Viewer)

AOU SACC Proposal #371 to split Phacellodomus ferrugineigula from P erythrophthalmus (following Simon et al 2008) was passed yesterday:
http://www.aou.org/checklist/south.php3 [> Proposal Tracking]

P ferrugineigula is already split by IOC and BirdLife International, but with conflicting and confusing English names:


[Remsen 2003 (HBW8) states that erythrophthalmus has orange iris; ferrugineigula has red iris.]

Simon et als' suggestion is technically accurate and avoids confusion with P erythrophthalmus sensu lato.

SACC notes that a further proposal on English names is needed...

Richard

It would maybe be better to move away from the red, orange and chestnut eyes altogether... with so much confusion!
But I agree that to allow some continuity, following Simon's proposal is best, as I assume Orange-eyed Thornbird will not have found much common usage yet.

Yes very confusing names... red and orange are so close, easy to make a mistake. If I could choose it, it would be something related to their habits:

P. ferrugineigula is a bird typical of marshes and wetlands... so I would suggest something like "Marsh Thornbird".

P. erythrophthalmus on the other hand is a bird that inhabits the forest and so should have a name that tells that. Or just keep "Red-eyed Thornbird" as people are used to that.

Aracari said:

Yes very confusing names... red and orange are so close, easy to make a mistake. If I could choose it, it would be something related to their habits:

P. ferrugineigula is a bird typical of marshes and wetlands... so I would suggest something like "Marsh Thornbird".

P. erythrophthalmus on the other hand is a bird that inhabits the forest and so should have a name that tells that. Or just keep "Red-eyed Thornbird" as people are used to that.

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... which would match the Brazilian Portuguese names well, though especially P. ferrugineigula is not entirely tied to the indicated habitat and consequently the name is potentially misleading. I quite like Red-eyed for P. ferrugineigula and Orange-eyed for P. erythrophthalmus (in the field, the difference in eye-colour is quite striking), but would also feel fine about Chestnut-eyed for the former. Just as long as people stay away from the totally misleading Orange-eyed for P. ferrugineigula and Red-eyed for (post-split) P. erythrophthalmus.

The original description of erythrophthalmus by Maximilian Wied described the bird as having "fiery red" iris. (Iris feuerroth)
http://books.google.com/books?id=fB...thalmus"&as_brr=3&client=firefox-a#PPA1175,M1 . page 1175. (I know this is a later work by Weid not the original description) On 1176 he says: iris hoch feurig mennigroth, oder feuerroth (Iris, fiery red lead (lead oxide, minium) high, or fire red ) The original description of ferrugineigula does not address iris color, I think. My new Latin is shoddy.
http://books.google.com/books?id=7OYDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA319&dq=ferrugineigula&lr=&client=firefox-a
This publication makes it clear the bird was picked up by handlers in England and was from Cape Horn. Sclater and others thought this was in error and said it was from Sao Paulo. This book states it was purchased for the museum in 1844 in London.
http://books.google.com/books?id=uz...dq="Anumbius+ferrugineigula"&client=firefox-a . Page 266. Johann Natterer was dead by then but his brother Josef was alive. I did find some interesting documentation of Johann Natterer letters to collectors in Brazil after he had left. He took a slave out of Brazil and took her to Gibraltar and got in a lot of trouble.
http://books.google.com/books?id=FG...rer+in+England&lr=&client=firefox-a#PPA186,M1 .
A description of Weid's original label:
http://books.google.com/books?id=NK...acellodomus+erythrophthalmus&client=firefox-a .

My theory is that erythrophthalmus is really the name for ferrugineigula and vise versa.

mb1848, while I see your point, old descriptions of bare part colours and irides should be considered questionable at best, as they commonly change relatively fast after death. This is one of the reasons so many species frequently are illustrated with incorrect colours of these parts (arguably, the worst case can be found among the primates; White-nosed Saki, Chiropotes albinasus: http://www.arkive.org/media/57/573BD0F5-6DA4-4682-80AF-86743438A2EE/Presentation.Large/photo.jpg). If you read the section describing the plumage (specifically forehead, underparts and tail - last section on pp. 1176 & first section on pp. 1177) it matches erythrophthalmus, but not ferrugineigula (as the names are used today).

English names

Richard Klim said:

SACC notes that a further proposal on English names is needed...

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SACC Proposal #396 to establish English names was posted yesterday:
http://www.aou.org/checklist/south.php3 [> Proposal Tracking]

It recommends Orange-eyed Thornbird for P erythrophthalmus, and Orange-breasted for P ferrugineigula.

Richard

Richard Klim said:

SACC Proposal #396 to establish English names was posted yesterday:
http://www.aou.org/checklist/south.php3 [> Proposal Tracking]

It recommends Orange-eyed Thornbird for P erythrophthalmus, and Orange-breasted for P ferrugineigula.

Richard

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SACC Proposal #396 was passed today (19 Aug 2009).

Richard

Richard Klim said:

SACC Proposal #396 was passed today (19 Aug 2009).

Richard

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Yippee!