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A strange gull from Beijing? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter zhangyong
- Start date
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
I would say Franklin's.
Bird is too small for a Pallas's. Also the bill looks too small for this species.
Let's wait for some opinions coming from experts...
Bird is too small for a Pallas's. Also the bill looks too small for this species.
Let's wait for some opinions coming from experts...
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rockfowl
Mark Andrews
Not an expert by any means!
But I can't see anything other than a small (runt) Pallas's for this one. I agree with Cristian that the bill is small (short) for Pallas's but pattern and colouration is good for this species and everything else seems to fit. It's perhaps not as small as it first appears, the bird to the immediate left a big Mongolian (with Vega?) perhaps?
But I can't see anything other than a small (runt) Pallas's for this one. I agree with Cristian that the bill is small (short) for Pallas's but pattern and colouration is good for this species and everything else seems to fit. It's perhaps not as small as it first appears, the bird to the immediate left a big Mongolian (with Vega?) perhaps?
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
At a second look I would agree with Mark. The bill shape and color doesn't look good for Franklin's.
Laurie Knight
Well-known member
I think it would help if the people who photographed the gull could provide some additional description of the bird and its behaviour in lieu of photos showing other features of the bird. For example, what was its leg colour? Sometimes the additional information helps you to rule out other alternatives, such as a Laughing Gull with an odd coloured bill [We seem to be getting one or two LGs in Aus every year these days].
Regards, Laurie
Regards, Laurie
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
The bill shape doesn't look good for a Laughing too...
chris butterworth
aka The Person Named Above
It's not Pallas', it's far too small, even for a runt and the closed wing pattern, bill and head shape are all wrong. It's not "wader-like" enough, in build, for Laughing ( they always look slender and rather attenuated all round, to me ). The secondary crescent, wing tip, broken eye ring and upperparts colour look almost right for Franklins. Anyone for hybrid?
Matt Prince
Sharkbait
Head shape is way to peaked for a pallas isn't it? They look like their bills have been pulled hard to flatten their foreheads out... Bill colour is about right though and doesn't fit (to my limited knowledge) any other dark headed gulls in the area..
Hybrid Pallas's X ???? Relict ??? What ??
Hybrid Pallas's X ???? Relict ??? What ??
rockfowl
Mark Andrews
Hey Matt!
It does look peaked doesn't it, but I think, when relaxed they can appear rather soft and rounded - http://ibc.lynxeds.com/photo/great-...lack-headed-gull-adult-summer-lesser-crested-
Also, grab the image and enlarge, the head would look shallower if the area where the forehead meets the bill had attained the summer black, not quite full yet.
It's far too large IMO Chris to consider the smaller gulls. Relict can appear rather chunky but never as big as this bird appears to the LWHG's to the left. In my experience, some of the Sibe' LWHG can be large gulls indeed, even so, this bird is not that small in comparison to its associates
Lengths from Olsen - Pallas's 57-61cm, Caspian (inc Mongolian) 56-68cm Herring complex similar to latter. The wing pattern looks okay to me though perhaps not as much white from the primary base, almost as if some retained 2nd summer though I'd prefer more images to be clear about this.
Grab the image and enlarge Laurie, the visible leg looks orange on my monitor.
I don't know anything about hybrid gulls, I find them hard enough anyway. Just thought, it's better to start from the obvious (hence runt) and then work back. Pallas's x Relict - Now that would be interesting!
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JANJ
Well-known member
Rather strange looking gull, which reminds strongly of an adult Pallas´s.
However, there are a few strange features, such as the short bill, with an extensive reddish base, the white crescent in front of the eye (not a moult feature imo). Structurally more like one of the smaller larus species. Also for an adult bird the outer primary bases would be white, not black as on younger birds.
What it might be, haven´t got a clue at the moment.
JanJ
However, there are a few strange features, such as the short bill, with an extensive reddish base, the white crescent in front of the eye (not a moult feature imo). Structurally more like one of the smaller larus species. Also for an adult bird the outer primary bases would be white, not black as on younger birds.
What it might be, haven´t got a clue at the moment.
JanJ
rockfowl
Mark Andrews
Hi Jan,
The short bill is quite a problem isn't it and something about the shape and tip doesn't quite sit right, is it slightly deformed? The white crescent in front of the eye is also rather strange, nowhere near as strong in colour or definition as the 'correct' bits. The extent of or lack of white primary bases does seem to be a rather major stumbling block!
Mmmmm..
The short bill is quite a problem isn't it and something about the shape and tip doesn't quite sit right, is it slightly deformed? The white crescent in front of the eye is also rather strange, nowhere near as strong in colour or definition as the 'correct' bits. The extent of or lack of white primary bases does seem to be a rather major stumbling block!
Mmmmm..
Matt Prince
Sharkbait
"It does look peaked doesn't it, but I think, when relaxed they can appear rather soft and rounded"
"Also, grab the image and enlarge, the head would look steeper if the area where the forehead meets the bill had attained the summer black, not quite full yet."
I zoomed in and saw what you meant, indeed it does have a snouty look thats hidden in the smaller photo because of its pale colour. I think you meant would look shallower but still these are both good points, well made.
And if it was a 57cm Pallas's next to a big vega... OK.
As for the odd white crescent in front of the eye - is that some trick of the light, I can't find similar pattern on *any* dark headed gulls.
"Also, grab the image and enlarge, the head would look steeper if the area where the forehead meets the bill had attained the summer black, not quite full yet."
I zoomed in and saw what you meant, indeed it does have a snouty look thats hidden in the smaller photo because of its pale colour. I think you meant would look shallower but still these are both good points, well made.
And if it was a 57cm Pallas's next to a big vega... OK.
As for the odd white crescent in front of the eye - is that some trick of the light, I can't find similar pattern on *any* dark headed gulls.
rockfowl
Mark Andrews
I did, my lapse of concentration :smoke:
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
rockfowl
Mark Andrews
Eduardo, I've been looking at that possibility myself, using PS to see if there are any giveaways, not mentioned so not to offend, but as you have!
Not just the hood either, there's something very odd about that bill - or I've been looking at it too long!
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james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
Unless there is some sort of strange perspective happening, cannot be Franklin's.
And, besides size, the bird is structually wrong for Laughing and the mantle is too pale. I would say both species can be ruled out, without question.
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