Common or Arctic Redpoll? Nothern Lithuania (1 Viewer)

Armandas_N. · Feb 11, 2011

Hello,
I need help with Redpoll ID. It was observed 2011 02 10 in leafy forest shelling catkins of alders in big flock of Common redpolls. Northern Lithuania Birzai dst..
Birds was in treetop. Photos not post processed only croped a little darker than in reality.

Armandas_N. · Feb 11, 2011

More photos. Same bird in all photos but on different branch

wolfbirder · Feb 11, 2011

Another flippin confusing bird ! I personally do not think it is arctic. Mantle too dark brown, head too buffy brown, verging on being Lesser! But pale rump and flanks with little streaking are pro-Arctic. Too much red on breast for arctic for me, could it be a North-western Mealy (darker birds)?

Hotspur · Feb 11, 2011

wolfbirder said:
Another flippin confusing bird ! I personally do not think it is arctic. Mantle too dark brown, head too buffy brown, verging on being Lesser! But pale rump and flanks with little streaking are pro-Arctic. Too much red on breast for arctic for me, could it be a North-western Mealy (darker birds)?

I think your thinking in a too britain centric mode. Surely in Lithuania there are only Arctic (exilipes) and Mealy to be considered. As for the bird - the punched in bill, relatively unstreaked flanks and UTCs along with a buffier colour to the head make me think arctic.

Jos Stratford · Feb 11, 2011

Hotspur said:
I think your thinking in a too britain centric mode. Surely in Lithuania there are only Arctic (exilipes) and Mealy to be considered. As for the bird - the punched in bill, relatively unstreaked flanks and UTCs along with a buffier colour to the head make me think arctic.

Lesser does occur on occasion in northern/eastern Lithuania, but is certainly the rarest of the options - Mealy the default, Arctic a scarce winter bird.

John Cantelo · Feb 11, 2011

I'm not sure how far, on some of these photos, one can be sure that the rump, flanks & UTCs are actually unstreaked. In blurry photos feather detail can be lost and sometimes these streaks are a matter of detail rather than great dark 'brushstrokes'. To me at least in the clearer, sharper shots in particular this (they are all of the same bird I assume) bird looks more like a Mealy. I just don't get that 'snowball image' that many (but not all) Arctics show as it looks rather dark. I'm not sure either about the bill - it seems to me to fall within Mealy range. However, I'd be the first to admit my experience of Arctic is relatively limited and when I've seen them I have concentrated on the whiter more obvious birds (= prettier!). Mealy would be my first response, but those with more experience of darker imms/female Arctics may be able to correct my generalisations,

mäkpe · Feb 11, 2011

Typical Arctic Redpoll. Unstreaked rump and undertailcoverts. Very few streaks on flanks. Small bill. White groundcolor in back and mantle. Coldgreyish neck etc.

John Cantelo · Feb 11, 2011

mäkpe said:
Typical Arctic Redpoll. Unstreaked rump and undertailcoverts. Very few streaks on flanks. Small bill. White groundcolor in back and mantle. Coldgreyish neck etc.

Just had another, closer, look. What I took to be streaking on the flanks in some shots do seem to have been shadow so I think the photos showing plainer, whiter sides (and elsewhere) are the more accurate (something I was initiatally unsure about). Not sure I can see that much 'white ground colour' myself as the mantle still looks quite brown to me. However, checking my notes etc I think the birds I've personally seen were particularly pale birds belonging to one of the paler races. Accordingly I happily concede that Mäkpe has it right and they're Arctics,

Armandas_N. · Feb 11, 2011

Thanks for responses! Hope to hear more!
All photos are of same bird! Photos of rump are only two and both not in focus. Here is the better one. Same as above.

birding maniac · Feb 11, 2011

Lokks like a Arctic for me.
I do consider the brown colour of the birds, but the unstreaked flanks, rump and Undertail all point to Arctic for me!

wolfbirder · Feb 12, 2011

It is correct to say one shouldnt let ones Uk-centric assessment take central stage, indeed that is exactly what i was doing.

My only concern is the brown mantle (unless the photographic effect is a little misleading) and i wonder if streaking on flanks is partially obscured by fluffed up plumage. Sibley feels that mantle colour should be the determining factor in the states, though I know that he is constanty re-evaluating redpolls. Many redpolls can look gleaming white in certain poses. I still edge for mealy, is the red on the breast too strong for Arctic? The underparts do look good for Arctic I admit, but again just how fluffed up are they? I think it is impossible to judge how marked or unmarked the rump and UTC's are despite the excellent efforts to photograph them. Once again, in these photos any markings may be obscured.

I love these Redpoll threads but hands up to admitting to be amateur. And I am still making a Uk-centric assessment I am afraid because that is the mindset I have developed. So it probably is indeed Arctic !!.

Common or Arctic Redpoll? Nothern Lithuania (1 Viewer)

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