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Old Thursday 9th February 2012, 23:16   #1
black crow
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Binocular question, please help.

I just bought a pair of Zen Ray 7x36 ED2 bins and while I'm really impressed with them so far I've noticed something in them and I'm not sure what it is. Please bear with me as I seem to have trouble describing this and don't know the terminology to talk about all of this well.

When I look through a pair of bins the barrels or tubes are black right to the front lenses. But with these Zen Rays there is a little narrow ring or band of what looks like reflection or reflected light right at the edge of where the tubes meet the lenses and goes mostly all the way around the lenses almost like a dim mirror reflecting light. I don't see it much when I'm inside and it's darker and I can also DEcrease it by narrowing the Interpupillary distance slightly. I can INcrease it by pushing my eyes harder into the eye cups. It's a little distracting at times because I'm not used to seeing it in any of my other binoculars. Can anyone tell me what this is?
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 00:12   #2
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Does it happen looking in the general direction of the sun? Or does it happen, more or less, all of the time until you get what you think is the right IPD? Could be veiling glare in the first instance.

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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 00:20   #3
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veiling glare would be a crescent on the bottom, it sounds like what you are describing is going all the way around (like a "halo") correct? If so, it's just probably the edge distortion...

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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 00:22   #4
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Probably didn't blacken the edges of the objective lenses. Pretty common ommission in generic cottage brand Chin-bins.
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 00:26   #5
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Originally Posted by black crow View Post
I just bought a pair of Zen Ray 7x36 ED2 bins and while I'm really impressed with them so far I've noticed something in them and I'm not sure what it is. Please bear with me as I seem to have trouble describing this and don't know the terminology to talk about all of this well.

When I look through a pair of bins the barrels or tubes are black right to the front lenses. But with these Zen Rays there is a little narrow ring or band of what looks like reflection or reflected light right at the edge of where the tubes meet the lenses and goes mostly all the way around the lenses almost like a dim mirror reflecting light. I don't see it much when I'm inside and it's darker and I can also DEcrease it by narrowing the Interpupillary distance slightly. I can INcrease it by pushing my eyes harder into the eye cups. It's a little distracting at times because I'm not used to seeing it in any of my other binoculars. Can anyone tell me what this is?
Crow:

Go back and do a search from Aug. 2009, on the ZR subforum, when these were introduced, large discussion. You will learn more about this.

Jerry
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 00:41   #6
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I have read most or all of that. I just wasn't sure that was what I was seeing as I had heard that problem was basically corrected. And truth be told I read it a while ago and was only casually interested at the time due to lack of knowledge on the subject. . I'll read it all again. Thanks.

I did email Zen Ray with this question a couple of days ago but so far I have not gotten any response.

Edit: I've found a lot of threads on this in the sub forum. If anyone remembers the thread that specifically deals with this issue and can link me to it I'll be eternally grateful.
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 01:37   #7
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I have read most or all of that. I just wasn't sure that was what I was seeing as I had heard that problem was basically corrected. And truth be told I read it a while ago and was only casually interested at the time due to lack of knowledge on the subject. . I'll read it all again. Thanks.

I did email Zen Ray with this question a couple of days ago but so far I have not gotten any response.

Edit: I've found a lot of threads on this in the sub forum. If anyone remembers the thread that specifically deals with this issue and can link me to it I'll be eternally grateful.
It sounds like veiling glare. I had the same problem with mine. How tight is the focus. Is it still tight like they were when they were first introduced? I never got on very good with the Zen Rays after I had them awhile. Returned mine.
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 01:42   #8
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Crow:

Do a search, and include "Holger Merlitz", he did a review of these and describes the
problems, and how the "improvements" were made to the field stop to help out with
reducing the glare.
You may have been better off in getting the ED3, model, I assume they are better.

Jerry
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 01:56   #9
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Thank you.

I actually had found him and his review a couple of days ago when I first noticed the problem and did a search. Unfortunately my technical understanding wasn't to the point where I was sure I was experiencing what he was talking about. But I guess that is it. They did a fix but did not fully correct the problem I see. I saw it right away. I still like these bins for many reasons and will likely keep them in spite of this annoyance. I do hope I get some kind of response from Zen Ray but I'm not holding my breath. I emailed them with a question before I bought them and got no response that time either.
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 02:08   #10
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It sounds like veiling glare. I had the same problem with mine. How tight is the focus. Is it still tight like they were when they were first introduced? I never got on very good with the Zen Rays after I had them awhile. Returned mine.
I have no idea how they were when first introduced. The focus is really easy and smooth but has some slack.
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 02:10   #11
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Originally Posted by ceasar View Post
Does it happen looking in the general direction of the sun? Or does it happen, more or less, all of the time until you get what you think is the right IPD? Could be veiling glare in the first instance.

Bob
It seems to be there most all of the time but you don't have to be looking at/toward the sun and is there on cloudy dark days.

I don't think this is veiling glare as it doesn't effect optical quality at all as far as I can tell. The images are clear crisp and bright. I just notice a ring/band (very thin and somewhat precise) right where the optical tubes meet the objective lenses. It's right at the edge of the tube and not the objective glass/lense. But right where they meet.
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 18:11   #12
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black crow

Other than the glare, how do they compare to your other binoculars.

Bruce
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 18:26   #13
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BC

I know exactly what you are taliking about, but I have no idea what causes it. I have seen the same thing on several different brands of binos. It appears as a narrow solid band on the very edge of the FOV and depending on the light source can look clear and unfocused, and at times may take on a slightly hazy look. It definitely is not veiling glare.

Perhaps Henry can chime in with an opinion on what would cause this.
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 20:07   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black crow View Post
I just bought a pair of Zen Ray 7x36 ED2 bins and while I'm really impressed with them so far I've noticed something in them and I'm not sure what it is. Please bear with me as I seem to have trouble describing this and don't know the terminology to talk about all of this well.

When I look through a pair of bins the barrels or tubes are black right to the front lenses. But with these Zen Rays there is a little narrow ring or band of what looks like reflection or reflected light right at the edge of where the tubes meet the lenses and goes mostly all the way around the lenses almost like a dim mirror reflecting light. I don't see it much when I'm inside and it's darker and I can also DEcrease it by narrowing the Interpupillary distance slightly. I can INcrease it by pushing my eyes harder into the eye cups. It's a little distracting at times because I'm not used to seeing it in any of my other binoculars. Can anyone tell me what this is?
Black Crow,

Sorry for taking a while to respond to your post here. We also received your email and have been discussing with our engineers in the last couple of days. Lilcrazy2 is right: what you described is not veiling glare. I have seen similar phenonomon on several other binoculars as well. One of them is many times more expensive than the 7x36 ED2. Someone mentioned a potential suspect- unblackened lens edge. All of our lens edges have been blackened prior to assembly. So is other binoculars I mentioned.

We do observe that it seems more noticeable with wide FOV binoculars. With additional field stop to restrict FOV, this band can be reduced. The decison on a particular specification for binoculars has been through many rounds of deliberate debate. Just like 7x36ED2 vs 7x43ED3. We cannot have improved edge distortion in 7x43ED3 while keeping the wide angle of 7x36ED2, unless of course we start talking PRIME class binoculars. The later of which does not even allow us to design a 7x binoculars, however.

Thanks

Charles
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 20:55   #15
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yeah, if it's a "halo" that goes all the way around the edge, without intruding into the image, it's not "veiling glare". The veiling glare shows up as a crescent on the bottom that obscures the lower half of the image.

the ED3 is definitely much improved in terms of stray light control compared to the 7x36 ED2 I tried.
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 21:05   #16
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From Zen Ray on this issue.

John,

Thanks for contacting us. We apologize for taking this long to get back to you. What you described is not the internal reflection as that issue has been fixed with the current design. We have seen this on other high end binoculars as well. According to the engineer, it's a result of a combination of wide field of view and shadowing effect from the lens housing in front of the objective glass. We may be able to eliminate this by restricting the field of view, like what other binoculars do.

Under bright field, the effect should mostly go away as you may have noticed.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any question.

Zen-Ray Optics


I have pretty much trained myself to overlook this minor issue. Good to know my brain is still flexible. It also helps to know it is not an individual problem of the specific pair I currently have.

I've been using them extensively for the last few days and I'm hooked. The center optics on birds is way cool and better than anything else I own. This will be my go to for birdwatching. The very smooth and easy focuser gives them a major advantage over my Sightrons in the type of birding I do. Plus I now have the bright, wide FOV, 7x that I've been dreaming of.

I'm very happy now knowing what that was I was seeing. I was determined to keep these bins come hell or high water due to the beautiful way birds look in them. I'm very glad I bought them. And thanks to Charles and everyone else who helped me sort this out.
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 22:29   #17
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Do you like them better than the Ranger and Fury ?

Bruce

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black crow

Other than the glare, how do they compare to your other binoculars.

Bruce
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 22:43   #18
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So far, yes. I have seen nothing better in the sweet spot. Color and clarity are stellar imo. I've had trouble putting them down even in the house and after I've been out all afternoon birding. The smooth focusing makes them a pleasure to use and almost as good as the Fury's in that regard. They have a little bit of slop but that is not bothersome so far. The very wide FOV is really noticeable and they are quite bright. And although they are my heaviest binoculars they handle the best of all of them. They feel light in my hand due to how well they are balanced. There is a lot to like about these. Like I said I was determined to keep them even with the issue I had. It's been fairly easy to get used to as it's only really noticeable when you are looking for it. When out birding today it never crossed my mind. I got some really nice views on a Northern Harrier that was skimming a field below me. When I put down the bins when my arms finally got tired I was a little shocked at how far away it actually was. They resolved it so well I thought it closer to me. Pretty impressive.
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 22:47   #19
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Thanks
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 23:05   #20
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These are all initial impressions. I've only had them about five days. I will have to see how these impressions hold up over the next several weeks or more.
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Old Friday 10th February 2012, 23:44   #21
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Blackcrow, does this "ring of light" change or go away as you rack the focus in/out to their full stops?
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Old Saturday 11th February 2012, 00:38   #22
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It's getting dark here so I'm not sure. It doesn't go away but it might change. I'll try and do a better test tomorrow.
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