review of Docter BGA 7x40 (1 Viewer)

Hi to all, the Docter BGA 7x40 is not a "perfect" instrument for birdwatchers, by the way, if you want, you can find my impression here:
http://www.binomania.it/binocoli/docterBGA/docterBGA7x40.php
have a nice week end to all!
Best Regards from Italy
Piergiovanni

Great writeup Pierg! Indeed, the individual focus hinders birding pursuits, but for rugged distant viewing, they can't be beat.

Interesting to note that the civilian version also got a yellow bias.

I don't mind the strong yellow tint on the military version. It improves contrast in most lighting situations and gives greatly enhanced sense of depth perception.

Yes, thanks for posting that link to the view. It was interesting about the noticeable yellow bias. The only prior mention about color bias I've read about this bin was that it was "more neutral" than the EDF, which leaves a lot to the imagination.

The "abuse" photos were downright "sadistic". Great job as always with the photo displays. I could almost feel the frost on the bin.

How serious do you think Doctor is about updating the 7x40 BGA with phase coatings?

I don't get either argument against it. The idea of not wanting to retouch a "classic" makes no sense when it comes to roofs in particular, which always lacked the "sharpness" of porros because of their lack of phase coatings.

Now even $199 entry level bins such as the Nikon Prostaff 7 have phase coatings, and the $279 Monarch 5 also has dielectric coatings. So it doesn't make sense that it would be "too costly" to update the prism coatings.

Granted everything costs more in Germany than in China, but could phase coatings cost more than an entire Monarch 5? A $200 or $300 price hike for added prism coatings wouldn't kill sales of this model, which I'm sure aren't very high to begin with, rather I think they would increase sales.

As an "avid adventurer" and nature watcher of the Pennsylvania wilds, I would even be interested in this bin if it had phase coatings and at least silver reflective coatings. My aging eyes need all the resolution they can get, particularly since I'm going down to 7x from 8x.

Brock

brocknroller said:

Yes, thanks for posting that link to the view. It was interesting about the noticeable yellow bias. The only prior mention about color bias I've read about this bin was that it was "more neutral" than the EDF, which leaves a lot to the imagination.

The "abuse" photos were downright "sadistic". Great job as always with the photo displays. I could almost feel the frost on the bin.

How serious do you think Doctor is about updating the 7x40 BGA with phase coatings?

I don't get either argument against it. The idea of not wanting to retouch a "classic" makes no sense when it comes to roofs in particular, which always lacked the "sharpness" of porros because of their lack of phase coatings.

Now even $199 entry level bins such as the Nikon Prostaff 7 have phase coatings, and the $279 Monarch 5 also has dielectric coatings. So it doesn't make sense that it would be "too costly" to update the prism coatings.

Granted everything costs more in Germany than in China, but could phase coatings cost more than an entire Monarch 5? A $200 or $300 price hike for added prism coatings wouldn't kill sales of this model, which I'm sure aren't very high to begin with, rather I think they would increase sales.

As an "avid adventurer" and nature watcher of the Pennsylvania wilds, I would even be interested in this bin if it had phase coatings and at least silver reflective coatings. My aging eyes need all the resolution they can get, particularly since I'm going down to 7x from 8x.

Brock

Click to expand...

I don't quite understand this lack of phase-coating either. I am sure that Docter is purchasing the prisms somewhere else (why making such a standard part in house?), be it from Schott or from somewhere in Japan, and they could order them including the P-coating, which should not create any big price jump with a 700 Euro binocular.

Sure, at 7x, there is little difference whether or not the coating is there, but they also offer a 10x42 version of that binocular, which obviously uses the same prisms. Let me ask them about that when I have the opportunity ..

The P-coatings on 200$ binoculars are more often than not of rather poor quality and not very effective, rather a marketing gag ...

Cheers,
Holger

A few things:
a) I'm wondering if Doctor phase or silver coats any of their prisms. I looked a bit and found nothing. Maybe they just haven't gotten there yet.
B) Not sure if its the same company but they already make prisms http://www.docteroptics.com/en/Products/Prisms.html
C) Lastly: I'm thinking the depth of field on these would make them perfectly useful birding.
"In fact, using panoramic-Terrestrial often forget what was the last time you had to focus. The stroke of the eye is obviously minimal, little more than half a turn of the knob. To change from minimum focusing distance to infinity must be less than half of the race. "
Though yellow bias would detract slightly.

brocknroller said:

Yes, thanks for posting that link to the view. It was interesting about the noticeable yellow bias. The only prior mention about color bias I've read about this bin was that it was "more neutral" than the EDF, which leaves a lot to the imagination.

The "abuse" photos were downright "sadistic". Great job as always with the photo displays. I could almost feel the frost on the bin.

How serious do you think Doctor is about updating the 7x40 BGA with phase coatings?

I don't get either argument against it. The idea of not wanting to retouch a "classic" makes no sense when it comes to roofs in particular, which always lacked the "sharpness" of porros because of their lack of phase coatings.

Now even $199 entry level bins such as the Nikon Prostaff 7 have phase coatings, and the $279 Monarch 5 also has dielectric coatings. So it doesn't make sense that it would be "too costly" to update the prism coatings.

Granted everything costs more in Germany than in China, but could phase coatings cost more than an entire Monarch 5? A $200 or $300 price hike for added prism coatings wouldn't kill sales of this model, which I'm sure aren't very high to begin with, rather I think they would increase sales.

As an "avid adventurer" and nature watcher of the Pennsylvania wilds, I would even be interested in this bin if it had phase coatings and at least silver reflective coatings. My aging eyes need all the resolution they can get, particularly since I'm going down to 7x from 8x.

Brock

Click to expand...

Brock, I agree about the abuse photos. You wouldn't like this binocular because the close focus is 49 feet.:eek!: You would have to look across at the field instead of your back woods. I notice in the picture of the very lovely Annalisa that she is holding the binocular squarely without using any technique. I think I would really like this binocular and one of the reasons I loved the new 8.5x42 Swarovision. I would have to try one first. As far as phase-coating, that is strange not use them. You seemed to like my non phase coated Swarovski 7x30SLC.

mooreorless said:

Brock, I agree about the abuse photos. You wouldn't like this binocular because the close focus is 49 feet.:eek!: You would have to look across at the field instead of your back woods. I notice in the picture of the very lovely Annalisa that she is holding the binocular squarely without using any technique. I think I would really like this binocular and one of the reasons I loved the new 8.5x42 Swarovision. I would have to try one first. As far as phase-coating, that is strange not use them. You seemed to like my non phase coated Swarovski 7x30SLC.

Click to expand...

Wow! That is a very looooong close focus. I would use them for nature observation and for birds of prey rather than close-in birding due to the IP EPs, which from my experience with the 6x30 FMT would probably not be "set and forget" for me. Still, that's a lot longer than the Fuji 7x50 FMT's close focus, which is listed as 17 ft. I could live with that.

As both Holger and Pier stated, at 7x, it seems that phase coatings are less of an issue, though I'm not quite sure why that is, but it could have been the reason why I didn't find your non-p coated 7x30 SLC lacking in sharpness. But the point stands that if you're going to pay $1,000+ for a roof, it should have phase coatings and high reflective coatings in this day and age.

As to Holger's point about phase coatings not being very effective at the low end, I haven't tried the Prostaff 7, though Jerry like them and horukuru like them better than the Monarch. However, I have tried the Monarch 5, which is just $79 more, and compared to the non-p coated Nikon 8x36 Sporter 1, the Nikon 8x42 Monarch 5 with phase coatings and dielectric coatings is noticeably "sharper," brighter and higher in contrast than the Sporter.

Hawke's $299 8x36 ED was very "sharp". One member said its resolution rivaled his 8x32 SE. I compared the Hawke with my SE, and I wouldn't go that far, but it is quite "sharp," and the phase coating and dielectric coatings help make that possible, and so does the ED glass.

So while the Monarch's and Hawke's p-coatings and dielectric coatings aren't the same quality as those on alphas, they do noticeably improve the view, and are a worthwhile addition, IMO, as I'm sure even better quality prism coatings would be on the Docter 7x40 and 10x42 BGAs.

As to Anna's hands, well, they look beautiful wrapped around any bin. She should model for optics company ads, and Pier should shoot the photos for the ads. His "bins in their natural environment" pix are much more compelling than the photos you typically find in sports optics ads and brochures, which are either just "standing" there against a "white screen" background or in some hairy knuckle hunter's hands.

<B>

Hello Folks! And thank you for your attention. I try to respond briefly to all in my poor english.
1) I asked to Susan Adam, Export Manager of Docter, a confirmation on the phase coating.. This was her response, (after she asked again to Docter engineers)
"I know it is true That the roof prism Has not the phase treatment. We are thinking about it, but it is connected with higher costs and so higher prices"

I think that Holger that is German could talk with Docter better than me . I discuss with them only in my bad English.
2) If you want I can take a picture of a white background with the canon S95. I could use the Swarovision 8.5x42, the Zeiss HT 8x42 and the BGA 7x40. I know this is not a serious test, but, maybe, this documentation might be of interest to you
3) My sister in law, Annalisa, does not use binoculars She is just being nice to make a model for Binomania.
4) Although the BGA has no treatment phase prisms I have noticed that it is resistant to stray light. I think that the 7 magnification help in this. If it was a 15X , probably, we would notice the problem more
In any case, I seem to remember that the Schmidt Pechan prism, has less need of the phase coating compared to Abbé konig. I have to go and retrieve the source...
5) The depth of field is good and if you are at a young age the visual arrangement allows you a lot.

You excuse me, I write in bad English and I express myself as a child. I would like to write more accurately but is difficult for me..I am sorry for this..

Best Regards from Italy

Hi Pier, We mean no disrespect to your sister-in-law, it is nice she does this for you.:t: I used computer monitor to take picture to show phase coating or lack of.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2324528&postcount=11

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2325788&postcount=19


This thread

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=219014

I hope this helps some and your use of English is good. Thanks for all you do!

Are you able to use this binocular straight on to you eyes?