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Old Saturday 29th July 2017, 23:17   #26
Rathaus
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I've had a few binoculars out which are renowned for their veiling glare. These would include the SV 8.5, the 8x30 Habicht, and the Nikon 8x30 Monarch 7 which appear to set benchmarks in glare.

Many point out the fact that when we hold these binoculars up to light and look at the eyepiece, we can see the myriad of kaleidoscope type reflections in the eyepiece surrounding the exit pupil which is proof of the lack of baffling. People have also directly correlated this phenomena with the amount of veiling glare/flare which we will see through the binocular.

I've made some comparisons under moderate viewing conditions and I've become slightly confused. When viewing the eyepiece of my Noctivid, it is as black as a cows innards and it gives me a wonderful view, the SV8.5 is lit up like a kaleidoscope and yet gives me a wonderful view, while the eyepiece of the monarch 7 is also lit up like a kaleidoscope and the same view is so milky it is unusable. It is likely that the Monarch 7 has even more visible scattered light in the eyepiece, but it is far far closer to the SV8.5 than the SV is to the Noctivid.

There is no question that the Noctivid will easily outperform all of these binoculars under difficult viewing conditions, but I'm intrigued as to why, under so many viewing conditions, the SV performs so well while it's eyepieces are lit up like kaleidoscopes? I would say the same for the 8x30 Habicht. How can this happen?

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Old Sunday 30th July 2017, 01:15   #27
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In most cases, the reflections are far enough away from the exit pupil of the binocular that the stay light falls outside of the persons pupil and is not picked up.

In the case of the Monarch 7, some of that stray light is right on the edge of the binocular exit pupil and if the person's eyes are dilated enough, the reflection will be picked up in their vision.
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Old Sunday 30th July 2017, 03:34   #28
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Bruce - I hear you, which is why an exit pupil of 6-7mm does not require the same level of baffling to avoid glare.

I've used the SV in dimly lit conditions post sunset and have found the view to be veiled with so much glare as to render it useless... (The optometrist measured my pupils at 6mm in a dimly lit room in which I can still easily read). I can see how veiling glare could vary dramatically from person to person and within a person's lifetime.

Regarding the little Monarch 7 - I find it to be so inferior to even the SV regarding veiling glare that it has become a small paper weight. It's a pity because it is fantastic otherwise. I picked it up at a bargain price, so I was thinking of dismantling it and playing around with it in an attempt to baffle it more effectively.
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Old Sunday 30th July 2017, 04:03   #29
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I have the Monarch 7 in an 8X30 and only hit a total wash out situation once. I was looking near the top of a mountain ridge just before the morning sun broke out over the top of the ridge. I took one hand and used it as a shade over the top of the objectives and all the glare and wash out went away. The view was then incredibly clear!

What was interesting is that I tried to recreate the scenario one morning a couple of weeks later and could not.

Now that I have an easy way to get around the problem for what looks to be a rare occurance, I continue to use and enjoy the little Monarch.
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Old Sunday 30th July 2017, 10:50   #30
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Originally Posted by Rathaus View Post
Bruce - I hear you, which is why an exit pupil of 6-7mm does not require the same level of baffling to avoid glare.

I've used the SV in dimly lit conditions post sunset and have found the view to be veiled with so much glare as to render it useless... (The optometrist measured my pupils at 6mm in a dimly lit room in which I can still easily read). I can see how veiling glare could vary dramatically from person to person and within a person's lifetime.

Regarding the little Monarch 7 - I find it to be so inferior to even the SV regarding veiling glare that it has become a small paper weight. It's a pity because it is fantastic otherwise. I picked it up at a bargain price, so I was thinking of dismantling it and playing around with it in an attempt to baffle it more effectively.
Sensitivity to glare might also vary with light levels over the year/season.
In bright day light I guess your eye pupil might take care of baffling to some extent. In the dark (winter) season I tend to prefer my 7x42 FL:s over the 8.5x42 SV:s.

Did you try putting hoods on the objective lenses?
Wonder if the monarchs will be possible to dismantle in a non-destructive way?

What is bit strange is the variance within models. According to Allbinos the 8x32 UVHD:s have very low internal reflections, the 8x42 is not as good, and the 10x42 is the worst of the three. Not sure if theses results correlates with perceived glare/flare in real reviews though.
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Old Sunday 30th July 2017, 22:16   #31
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What is bit strange is the variance within models. According to Allbinos the 8x32 UVHD:s have very low internal reflections, the 8x42 is not as good, and the 10x42 is the worst of the three. Not sure if theses results correlates with perceived glare/flare in real reviews though.
The images and scores of these Leica binoculars are good examples of what Allbinos sometimes gets wrong about glare. The 10x42 is downgraded for completely irrelevant reflections that are far removed from the exit pupil. The really damaging reflections at the edge of the exit pupil actually look better in the 10x42 than the 8x42. Also notice that the left side of the 8x42 looks worse than the right side (probably because of slightly different positioning of the light source) even though the left's glare resistance should be identical to the right.

Another glare variable that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the position of the focusing lens (obviously not applicable to the 8x30 Habicht). Sometimes the focusing lens cell acts to baffle reflections from the objective lens cell, but only when the focusing lens is moved forward near the objective (this may be either close or distant focus depending on whether the focusing lens is positive or negative). When the focusing lens moves backward the objective cell reflection will be exposed to the eye.

Sometimes reflection from the focusing lens cell is the problem. Then the reflection is likely to be exposed to the eye when the focusing lens in in its forward position, but baffled by the prism aperture as the focusing lens moves backward.

Last edited by henry link : Monday 31st July 2017 at 01:19.
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Old Monday 31st July 2017, 02:51   #32
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The images and scores of these Leica binoculars are good examples of what Allbinos sometimes gets wrong about glare. The 10x42 is downgraded for completely irrelevant reflections that are far removed from the exit pupil. The really damaging reflections at the edge of the exit pupil actually look better in the 10x42 than the 8x42. Also notice that the left side of the 8x42 looks worse than the right side (probably because of slightly different positioning of the light source) even though the left's glare resistance should be identical to the right.

Another glare variable that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the position of the focusing lens (obviously not applicable to the 8x30 Habicht). Sometimes the focusing lens cell acts to baffle reflections from the objective lens cell, but only when the focusing lens is moved forward near the objective (this may be either close or distant focus depending on whether the focusing lens is positive or negative). When the focusing lens moves backward the objective cell reflection will be exposed to the eye.

Sometimes reflection from the focusing lens cell is the problem. Then the reflection is likely to be exposed to the eye when the focusing lens in in its forward position, but baffled by the prism aperture as the focusing lens moves backward.
Henry:

I suppose Allbinos tests binoculars all the same way, and so
what you see in the photos, is consistent across a large range.

The reviews are a comparison, and I think those ratings are a good idea
of the light handling of the optics they test and rank.

I have not found any other testers that perform tests like this, and so while
your points may be valid, it is hard to disagree with Allbinos, as the scores they present are valid under many lighting situations.

I suppose you could contact Arek, and ask about his testing methods.

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Old Monday 31st July 2017, 15:47   #33
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Hi Henry,

I have made the same observation! In my HT 10x42, I am almost sure the reflection from the cell of the focusing lens directed to the objective lens, plus, a BIG PLUS, the strong reflection from some part of the A-K prism, also directed to the objective, are the causes of that milki veiling glare. The Habicht 10x40 does not have, of course, any moving lenses in that position and is very well baffled and blackened in that section. So, it is noticeable better on the veiling glare than the HT 10x42.

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Old Tuesday 8th August 2017, 00:29   #34
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Thanks, Henry, for posting that again - so the front/objectiv side diameter of the baffling cone is too wide?

To my eyes, the blackening inside the Habicht is absolutely insufficient. The big cone baffle is rippled, and the grooves are sheer silver metal. Next baffle is also silvery metal instead of black.

It should be so easy to improve on this for Swarovski, its a shame really. Some more black colour. The whole baffling stuff is way too reflective (that is why I swear on some short homemade sunshades which do improve performance quite a bit).

I am seriously thinking about getting a special treatment for my Habicht, and not from Swarovski.

Nevertheless, this little bin keeps amazing me. Had another sample of the 8x30 E2 recently, but the view is so dull, dark and red compared to the Habicht that I just couldnt keep it. But Nikon is even a more hopeless case than Swarovski caring a bit more about a 70 year old design...

http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/al...0e2review.html
It seems painting the baffles with the latest black coatings wouldn't be to difficult.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack

Heck, if I owned one I'd be tempted to use my lens ring spanners to take it apart and fabricate a better baffle.

Last edited by maico : Tuesday 8th August 2017 at 00:33.
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Old Tuesday 8th August 2017, 03:45   #35
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The baffling cone in my 8x30 is blackened, but reflections from the ribbed interior of the cone are essentially harmless anyway because they're invisible from the eyepiece end. The main problem is that the cone's front opening is too large to block the bright glancing reflections from the metal objective cell that are very visible from the eyepiece. If the cone opening were slightly reduced in diameter the objective cell problem ought to be fixed. That would be a big improvement, but the undersized prism that intrudes into the exit pupil would still sometimes cause glare when strong side light comes from an angle opposite the prism intrusion.

Last edited by henry link : Tuesday 8th August 2017 at 14:41.
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Old Tuesday 24th October 2017, 19:22   #36
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Are the prisms all the same size on the 7,8 and 10X Habichts ?
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Old Thursday 26th October 2017, 15:07   #37
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Are the prisms all the same size on the 7,8 and 10X Habichts ?
They are the same size on the 3 Nikon 8x, 10x and 12x SEs. Their prism housings are the same size.

Try to compare the sizes of the Habicht prism housings to see if they are the same size -- if you have access to an 8x30 and a 10x40 or 7x42.

You can see photos of them here:

https://www.allbinos.com/1-Swarovski-binoculars.html

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Old Thursday 26th October 2017, 18:35   #38
Theo98
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Yes

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Are the prisms all the same size on the 7,8 and 10X Habichts ?
Maico,

The external prism housings on my Habicht Porro 7X42 MGA, my 8X30 W GA and my 10X42 WMGA all appear the same size...Internally, not so sure!

Ted
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Old Tuesday 7th November 2017, 18:46   #39
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The baffling cone in my 8x30 is blackened, but reflections from the ribbed interior of the cone are essentially harmless anyway because they're invisible from the eyepiece end. The main problem is that the cone's front opening is too large to block the bright glancing reflections from the metal objective cell that are very visible from the eyepiece. If the cone opening were slightly reduced in diameter the objective cell problem ought to be fixed. That would be a big improvement, but the undersized prism that intrudes into the exit pupil would still sometimes cause glare when strong side light comes from an angle opposite the prism intrusion.
It seems such a simple mod. We need a guinea pig to strip down their own binos and try...
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