Second site had a putative hybrid Broad-leaved x Green-flowered helleborine in 2010, which was eaten off before it could flower in 2011. Where there were c70 GFH two years ago, this year there were none - just a single Broad-leaved. More evidence of a poor Epipactis year.
That reminds me of a Helleborine that I photographed six years ago and identified as Green-flowered but it's bugged me ever since. It was at a site where there are Broad-leaved and a few Green-flowered of the type where the buds only open slightly or not at all.
I've got this thing, which was growing in a storm gutter by the side of a busy road, down as a pendula GFH but I often look at it and have my doubts.
Anyone any views?
Rich M
That reminds me of a Helleborine that I photographed six years ago and identified as Green-flowered but it's bugged me ever since. It was at a site where there are Broad-leaved and a few Green-flowered of the type where the buds only open slightly or not at all.
I've got this thing, which was growing in a storm gutter by the side of a busy road, down as a pendula GFH but I often look at it and have my doubts.
Anyone any views?
Rich M
Knowing where it was taken would perhaps help, if its Cotswolds or further south I'd take a stab at viridiflora.
Alan
Whenever I look at it I get features that suggest BLH and others that suggest GFH.
Looking at the photos I would agree with Alan.It looks like viridiflora to me.
Here is a couple of links for reference:
http://davidearlgray.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/epipactis-in-lincolnshire-and.html
http://davidearlgray.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/broad-leaved-helleborines-at-cloud-wood.html
Hope this helps?
Cheers,
Dave.
Hi Dave
I think we can be sure that Rich's plant is almost definitely a phyllanthes - the long pointed tepals and, (although not necessary a indicative to phyllanthes it is more a feature of that species) the drooping flowers with possible helleborine influence rather than the other way round.
I've seen the exact same viridflora (and indeed the exact same phyllanthes!) photographed on your blog and can confirm that it was clearly a helleborine in every way, bar the anthocyanin pigment - a little different to this plant which, as Rich notes, shows the yellowish petals contrasting with the sepals and maybe even a hint of pink on the lip. Rich's plant is in my mind more like phyllanthes with minor helleborine features.
Really need to see the pollination mechanism!
Mike.
I think we might have to agree to differ on this one Mike, although I should add that I'm only looking at a 2" BlackBerry screen.
I see three pointers to BLH:-
Hairy ovaries
No groove between bosses (but yes, they do look clean!)
Ants, I often see them after the nectar on BLH but not on GFH
I'm happy to be proved wrong, or convinced so.
Alan
Hi Mike and Rich, the BL Helleborines at Cloud Wood are so variable I think you need to do a PhD on them to understand them!
I will hopefully photograph them again this week and will let you know what I find.
I have also spoken to Sean about these plants as there vary from your typical BL Hells to something which looks like Young's Helleborine!
On last year's count I found almost 200 plants in all shape and sizes.
Hope this helps?
Cheers,
Dave.
I think we might have to agree to differ on this one Mike, although I should add that I'm only looking at a 2" BlackBerry screen.
I see three pointers to BLH:-
Hairy ovaries
No groove between bosses (but yes, they do look clean!)
Ants, I often see them after the nectar on BLH but not on GFH
I'm happy to be proved wrong, or convinced so.
Alan
Rich - I know you have given me the site name, perhaps you could email me some more specific directions, as I am headed that way this week? I would be interested to check the site out. More pics and maybe send them to John Richards for an opinion? Mark Lynes would be interested, too, no doubt.
Sean