2012 UK Orchid season updates (21 Viewers)

[Leifus]

Hello all,

Does anyone know when the Kent Lady orchids started flowering this year?

Next year I'm attempting to see every species (GB and Ireland) in one summer and so I'm trying to decide whether to see Lady Orchid before going off to the Burren to get Dense-flowered Orchid or to wait until afterwards...

any thoughts?

 

[leptochila]

Hi Steve

Do you have any more pictures of the flowers? Your shot looks more like Green-flowered than Narrow-lipped, but it is difficult to tell because of the angle and distance.

Regards

Sean

Definitely looks like phyllanthes to me too - the heavily drooping flowers and small roundish lower leaf are good features.

Mike.

 

[leptochila]

Well as the Broad Leaved Helleborine site i discovered a few weeks ago has roused quite a bit of interest, and because it is only half a mile from home, i thought i would provide everyone with a quick update.

Both Achlorophyllus plants are now in flower. The big one has only been in flower a week but is already drooping and covered in mud (from being right next to the path). The Medium sized plant has been damaged by yesterdays storm and is now drooping considerably (two nearbly BLH have been crushed). All the normal BLH, including those with unusual elongated lip shapes are now in full bloom and some are starting to go over.

I have provided a couple of macro pics taken today below. Anyone still wishing to visit the site (in the Staffordshire Moorlands) just send me a quick PM with your personal e-mail and i will provide you with site details.

Byron.

Thanks for the update Byron. I'll be visiting again tomorrow for sure.

Mike.

 

[leptochila]

Ynyslas

Whilst trying to twitch an elusive Gull-billed Tern at Ynyslas (near Borth), I found lots of Marsh Helleborines still in full flower with the odd Pyramidal orchid. Stunning pink carpets of Bog Pimpernel in the sunshine was a bonus.

Any ideas what the small white flower poking through the Wild Thyme is?

Mike.

 

[StevePreddy]

Do you have any more pictures of the flowers? Your shot looks more like Green-flowered than Narrow-lipped, but it is difficult to tell because of the angle and distance.

Definitely looks like phyllanthes to me too - the heavily drooping flowers and small roundish lower leaf are good features.

Sean, Mike, thanks you for this. You're correct. Rich M and I went to visit the site this afternoon and looked at the plants properly. They are, as you say, Green-flowered. A classic example of "seeing what you expected to see" on my first visit: I knew I was more or less in the spot where the Narrow-lipped had been seen in previous years, and although I satisfied myself that I wasn't looking at Broad-leaveds, didn't think to check beyond that.

Rich was musing this afternoon as to whether previous visitors to the site had identified their plants correctly, although the location he'd previously been told about was about 100 metres from where we were today. Rich has photos from other observers from previous years, so may be able to comment further - and he also took some shots today, so may well post those too.

Quite what's happened to the Narrow-lippeds at this site, who knows, but we now have a Green-flowered site in Bristol again (they had previously occurred in the Avon Gorge but not recently), and the power of the identification by internet is demonstrated yet again! Thanks again.

Steve

 

[Leifus]

Any ideas what the small white flower poking through the Wild Thyme is?

Mike.

hard to tell without the leaves, but Knotted Pearlwort (Sagina nodosa) would be a good shout. (if not, try Sagina subulata...or maybe Minuartia verna - spring sandwort)

 

[rmielcarek]

Rich was musing this afternoon as to whether previous visitors to the site had identified their plants correctly, although the location he'd previously been told about was about 100 metres from where we were today. Rich has photos from other observers from previous years, so may be able to comment further - and he also took some shots today, so may well post those too.

Steve

Yes, this years plants are Green-flowered but I'm not sure what flavour. Quite open flowers but not much structure. Anyone like to put a variety on that?

Rich M

 

[leptochila]

hard to tell without the leaves, but Knotted Pearlwort (Sagina nodosa) would be a good shout. (if not, try Sagina subulata...or maybe Minuartia verna - spring sandwort)

Thanks Leif, looks very good for Knotted Pearlwort to me. I should start brushing up on my other wildflowers!

Rich, it looks closest to var. phyllanthes but the lip does look like it has at least a shallowly formed hypochile so maybe with elements of var. degenera? Not sure if this latter variant is still widely accepted.

Mike.

 

[Ghostly Vision]

Sean, Mike, thanks you for this. You're correct. Rich M and I went to visit the site this afternoon and looked at the plants properly. They are, as you say, Green-flowered. A classic example of "seeing what you expected to see" on my first visit: I knew I was more or less in the spot where the Narrow-lipped had been seen in previous years, and although I satisfied myself that I wasn't looking at Broad-leaveds, didn't think to check beyond that.

Rich was musing this afternoon as to whether previous visitors to the site had identified their plants correctly, although the location he'd previously been told about was about 100 metres from where we were today. Rich has photos from other observers from previous years, so may be able to comment further - and he also took some shots today, so may well post those too.

Quite what's happened to the Narrow-lippeds at this site, who knows, but we now have a Green-flowered site in Bristol again (they had previously occurred in the Avon Gorge but not recently), and the power of the identification by internet is demonstrated yet again! Thanks again.

Steve

Phew!

The other recent example of this are the Epipactis at Wrexham, identified for years as Broad-leaved, and last year a count of over 2000 Dune helleborines! Personally I'm not 100% convinced about all of these plants, but time will tell.

And what about the Princes Risborough plants - Narrow-lipped certainly ocurred at the site, but to my eyes every plant there looks to fit within range for Broad-leaved. There is a simliar story at another Bucks NLH site where I was sent pictures, identified as NLH (it is another well-known site for that species), and they were clearly BLH.

This is a classic case as you say Steve of fresh eyes and going to a site with expectations of what you're about to see. Everyone's done it! (Ahem, Paddyfield warbler/Chiffchaff)


Sean

 

[Ghostly Vision]

Yes, this years plants are Green-flowered but I'm not sure what flavour. Quite open flowers but not much structure. Anyone like to put a variety on that?

Rich M

Hi Rich

Don't wish to comment of what flavour those are, but interested in the pictures from this site from pervious years and whether they were indeed NLH?

Sean

 

[simonm001]

Bristol Green-flowered Helleborines

Yes, this years plants are Green-flowered but I'm not sure what flavour. Quite open flowers but not much structure. Anyone like to put a variety on that?

Rich M

Now I've seen the plant ( and going by Harrap ) I'd say var. degenera. The flowers are widely open but so were most of the var.pendula I found at Cotswold sites yesterday. Maybe due to weather again.
Rich - Could you post on this thread the images you have of the 'Narrow-lipped' that were previously found at the same site? Or email them to me..
No sign of any other Helleborines in a 2 hour search this lunchtime.
Simon

 

[leptochila]

Staffs albiflora helleborine

Updated my photos of this particularly rare variant today. To reiterate what Byron said; both plants well in flower along with the normal plants (which no longer have pointed lips, presumably having since reflexed). Such a beautiful pale purplish-pink.

Mike.

ps. it should be albifolia, not 'albiflora'

 

[Ghostly Vision]

Hi Mike

It is notable from your pictures (I especially like the third one) that none of the flowers have been visited by wasps - an indication that colouration (and perhaps odour, if they have one) of normal plants is an attractant, but not in achlorophyllous ones.

Sean

 

[leptochila]

Hi Mike

It is notable from your pictures (I especially like the third one) that none of the flowers have been visited by wasps - an indication that colouration (and perhaps odour, if they have one) of normal plants is an attractant, but not in achlorophyllous ones.

Sean

Cheers Sean

I think if you look closely at the inside of the cup, there doesn't seem to be any nectar, or at least it's very dry which is odd as in normal plants (here and elsewhere) the nectar is quite apparent as a shiny fluid. I wonder whether the lack of chlorophyll influences the formation of nectar in some way and this is what's made it unattractive to wasps? Can't imagine how though.

Trust you to like the picture that took the least effort!

Mike.

 

[heakl]

Hi Mike

It is notable from your pictures (I especially like the third one) that none of the flowers have been visited by wasps - an indication that colouration (and perhaps odour, if they have one) of normal plants is an attractant, but not in achlorophyllous ones.

Sean

For some reason there may be a lack of the pollinating insects. The regular Broad-leaved were well in flower when I visited the site some time ago and it was noticeable at that time that the flowers were not being pollinated.

Did you check or take photos of the normal ones mike? Like your photos, well done.

Alan

 

[Lorne]

Hi all, oddly the Broad-leaved in Dorset are not out in flower yet! I have been checking the sites for poss. BLH viridiflora, I any of you have a site in the southern part of the UK, site info would be appreciated.

Regards.

 

[heakl]

Yes, this years plants are Green-flowered but I'm not sure what flavour. Quite open flowers but not much structure. Anyone like to put a variety on that?

Rich M

Now I've seen the plant ( and going by Harrap ) I'd say var. degenera. The flowers are widely open but so were most of the var.pendula I found at Cotswold sites yesterday. Maybe due to weather again.
Rich - Could you post on this thread the images you have of the 'Narrow-lipped' that were previously found at the same site? Or email them to me..
No sign of any other Helleborines in a 2 hour search this lunchtime.
Simon

Although I've read that var. degenera can have open flowers I have yet to see one, with the ones I have seen its more a case of trying to judge the shape of the hypochile looking between the lateral sepals from the underside the flower. In the photo that Rich posted I get the impression there is a well formed and quite deep hypochile, in Simons second photo there hardly seems to be one, although I've no doubt you have been looking at the same colony. If either of you have a side on view of the lip it would be very nice to see.

Alan

PS Thanks for the Cotswolds pendula update Simon, I found a few quite nice ones but in different place to last year!

 

[heakl]

Hi all, oddly the Broad-leaved in Dorset are not out in flower yet! I have been checking the sites for poss. BLH viridiflora, I any of you have a site in the southern part of the UK, site info would be appreciated.

Regards.

Hi Lorne,
I found a couple of plants here in the Cotswolds last year, right at the end of the season and with most of the flowers gone over, but from what I could see I thought they were viridiflora, I've found one plant in the same position this year but like your Dorset ones it was still in bud when I looked. I'll keep a check on it and let you know if it's worth the trip.

Expected to see you on the HOS Cumbria bog orchid trip!

Alan

 

[rmielcarek]

Although I've read that var. degenera can have open flowers I have yet to see one, with the ones I have seen its more a case of trying to judge the shape of the hypochile looking between the lateral sepals from the underside the flower. In the photo that Rich posted I get the impression there is a well formed and quite deep hypochile, in Simons second photo there hardly seems to be one, although I've no doubt you have been looking at the same colony. If either of you have a side on view of the lip it would be very nice to see.

Alan

PS Thanks for the Cotswolds pendula update Simon, I found a few quite nice ones but in different place to last year!

Alan

there's only one plant in flower and some of the flowers on the spike show a deeper, more obvious, hypochile than others. I will try and post some more shots when I get round to sorting them out.

Rich

 

[leptochila]

Leptochila-ering

I visited a few leptochila sites today; 1 in Wales and 2 in Gloucestershire. The first site, despite being apparently full of budding leptochila a week and a half ago, had all been replaced by helleborine! One very dark reddish wine coloured one was nice to see. The Gloucestershire sites were more successful with one just opening at the first spot and several in full flower at the second. It was quite amazing to see the variation in flower form even between these very close colonies.

Mike.