300mm f2.8 mkI with 2x mkIII for BIF (2 Viewers)

[Paul125]

Hi,

Simply - Anyone with experience of taking BIF with this (300mm f2.8 mkI with 2x mkIII combination), both tripod and gimbal set up and hand held?

Currently using 500mm f4 with and without 1.4x which is great combo for birding in situations with less movement of subjects and close access to site(less walking/carrying) but I often cover big distances on foot when birding so normally just go out with 300f4 + 1.4x and the 500mm stays at home. So considering a change.

Obviously 300mm f2.8 is about as sharp as it gets and could be carried and used handheld with and without 1.4x without much trouble and for BIF. This would really fit with my birding habits I think.

But what about when I need that extra reach, and for situations when I've got the tripod. How would 300mm f2.8 mkI with 2x mkIII combination measure up to my 500mm, would I miss the super tele reach of the 500mm with 1.4x? Particularly interested in BIF results, raptors etc

Paul

I use APS-C sensor bodies, 40D and 7D
I know its pretty amazing but not interested in the new 300mm f2.8 mkII results here, thanks.

 

[Hor Kee]

I have not tried this combo, so this qualifies my comments here. I use a 600D + 400mm f/5.6L lens which is an excellent light combo for BIF, both when tripod-mounted and handheld. IS will not be nesessary for BIF as the shutterspeeds required will be high enough as to freeze subject movement, and IS in this situation (particularly the older IS in the 300mm version I) will most likely make things worse as it tries to compensate for quick jerky movements. For nearby birds in flight, the framing of the setup (600mm or 840mm equivalent on your crop bodies) may be too tight to allow for erratic movements. Further, the 2x TC will slow down AF, which would be problematic for faster birds. That said, the 300mm & 2x TC combo will still give you great BIF shots, provided it is used properly.

 

[Roy C]

I have not used the 300/2.8 IS with the MkIII converter but did use one frequently with a 2x MkII - for perched birds it was a great combo but the AF was a tad slow for BIF even when using a focus limiter (essential when using the lens with a 2x tc IMO).
The 300/2.8 with 1.4x is superb and you hardly lose anything from the bare lens in IQ or AF speed and makes a great walk around combo. With a 2x tc I always felt the need to stop down one to f8 to get the best out of it and I almost always used the combo on a tripod.
The 300/2.8 + 2x tc is not going to be up the the 500/4 + 1.4x IMHO allthough it is very usable in the right situation. I have even got superb result from stacking a 1.4x and 2x tc (840mm) but you do need good support and light as well as a stationary target in my experience - Mind you you cannot stack MkIII converters like you could the MkII ones.

 

[Andy Bright]

Here's a couple of mine with a 300/2.8 + 2x but not the latest 2x tc. (both taken with the dodgy 1D MkIII)
I wouldn't shoot it wide open, f8 minimum.
cheers,
Andy

 

[goodallian]

Paul,
Here are a few shots taken yesterday with my 7D and 300f2.8 Mkll with 2x Mklll converter. All handheld with lens wide open (f5.6) except the Hobby at f7.1.
It should show you that with practice (lots) it is possible to get decent images with AF at the equivalent of 600mm although it is slower to lock on than with the 1.4x.
I dispensed with tripods and monopods when I sold my 500f4 and made a deliberate choice of the new 300 with the latest converters so that I could have more freedom when walking around. So far it has been a wise move, especially being able to hang the gear from the Black Rapid strap and avoiding putting strain on my neck. The lens is superb as expected with or without converters and gives me 3 lenses -in- one.
300mm for close birds/or BIF's, 420mm for mid range subjects with virtually no loss of IQ and 600mm for the more distant,usually static birds.
The weight for hand-holding with the 7D totals at 8lbs plus 12ozs with the 2x attached and with the excellent IS, it isn't really a problem.
It is the initial outlay which hurts most!!

Hope this is of use to you.
Ian Goodall

 

[Paul125]

Thanks for all your contributions so far.
Ian and Andy's shots show that with both the mkII and mkIII converters and both the mkI and mkII 300mm you can get great results handheld with practise and enough light. Gulls, parakeets and hobby aren't the largest birds or the slowest flyers so so far this seems encouraging to me.

Paul

 

[Hor Kee]

Superb shots! Ian, what model of the Black Rapid strap do you use? How do you find its weight-supporting capabilities?

 

[goodallian]

Hor Kee,

I use the Black Rapid RS-7 with Fasten R-3. Silly prices but I have found it was well worth it for taking the weight off my neck and on to the shoulder.
The lens and camera hang horizontally but upside down (as shown in the WEX advert) and are very quickly able to slide up with the carabiner into shooting position. You can swop shoulders if necessary and it is easily steadied with your hand if in a hurry!

I believe Roy C uses the same?

I G

 

[Marcus Conway - ebirder]

Hi Paul,

The AF with the 300 and 2x is quite slow. I use the combo a lot especially when up in the mountains but I think one of the reasons I don't have a decent ptarmigan is flight is because the AF is so much slower than the 500 f4.

I could show you some nice flight shots with the combo, but what does that prove? It proves it possible. What you want to know is which is faster and more reliable. It's the 500 f4 with or without the converter.

Saying that I am a massive 300 f2.8 fan due to the weight and size and more often than not that's what I use!

Cheers, Marcus

 

[MJN]

The 300f2.8 does suffer (quite understandably) from loss of af speed when coupled to a 2X.
For BIF, this can be minimised considerably by using the focus limiter and always having the set up pre focused on your anticipated subject distance.
I love the set up even for bif and quite happily accept its limitations. The attached image is taken with the extender mk11, I don't think that the mk111 would produce images of a lower quality but I'd be surprised if it's significantly better too!
http://www.pbase.com/mikenimages/image/134676204
Mike.

 

[Pigeon_Pete]

Hi,

Simply - Anyone with experience of taking BIF with this (300mm f2.8 mkI with 2x mkIII combination), both tripod and gimbal set up and hand held?

Currently using 500mm f4 with and without 1.4x which is great combo for birding in situations with less movement of subjects and close access to site(less walking/carrying) but I often cover big distances on foot when birding so normally just go out with 300f4 + 1.4x and the 500mm stays at home. So considering a change.

Obviously 300mm f2.8 is about as sharp as it gets and could be carried and used handheld with and without 1.4x without much trouble and for BIF. This would really fit with my birding habits I think.

But what about when I need that extra reach, and for situations when I've got the tripod. How would 300mm f2.8 mkI with 2x mkIII combination measure up to my 500mm, would I miss the super tele reach of the 500mm with 1.4x? Particularly interested in BIF results, raptors etc

Paul

I use APS-C sensor bodies, 40D and 7D
I know its pretty amazing but not interested in the new 300mm f2.8 mkII results here, thanks.

Hi Paul

I have the 300 MKII and both MK3 TC's.on a 7D

If there is good contrast between the bird and background I can nail a high percentage of pin sharp images. If there is poor contrast eg. a short eared owl floating along with a light brown back ground which it usually is, then AF can be a pain with the 2X, less so with the 1.4x

On a tripod with good light and good background the 2x gives pin sharp images at F7 /F8

Couple of pics attached of Hen Harrier and Peregrine swallowing a starlings leg on a 2x TC (you can even see the starlings claws). The peregrine was at 55M approx range and the harrier 50M.
Presetting the focus range to about 50-75 Metres helped with the harrier shot, in fact I always" pre arm" the focus distance when looking for BIF .

http://bighugelabs.com/onblack.php?id=7179578629&size=large

 

[BodyResults]

On a tripod with good light and good background the 2x gives pin sharp images at F7 /F8

Hey Chas,

Nice shots. Do you find a sharpness difference with with the 2xIII on between wide open (f5.6) and stopped down 1/3 or 2/3?

Thanks
Doug

 

[Pigeon_Pete]

Hi Doug,

yes, definitely sharper between F6.3 and F8. .

 

[Malcolm Stewart]

Hi,

Simply - Anyone with experience of taking BIF with this (300mm f2.8 mkI with 2x mkIII combination), both tripod and gimbal set up and hand held?
...

Paul

I use APS-C sensor bodies, 40D and 7D
I know its pretty amazing but not interested in the new 300mm f2.8 mkII results here, thanks.

Hi Paul,
I have an original EF 300 F2.8L and the 2x MkII Canon extender. (Haven't shelled out for the MkIII yet!) Camera bodies: 30D (no AF-MA), 1D Mk III & 50D.

What I noticed was that optimising the AF-MA was more important with the 2x extender than with the 1.4x. I'm no weight lifter, so I always used mine on a gimbal mount, and confined my BIF shots to shorter lenses. Most of my shots were of ducks & geese, so any focus errors showed up easily, as the eye was drawn away from the bird to a sharper patch of water. However, it's some time since I used that combination as I bought an EF 500 F4L IS last year.