BBC Twitching Documentary (2 Viewers)

[The sniper]

driving for 12 hours non stop while dosed up on red bull can hardly be good for other road users.
With regards to the young girl,i stand by my comments.
Kids are a gift that US parents must cherish,not drag around the country at weekends because the parent has an addiction.Sure,she is out and about and is probably reasonably healthy but she probably has no contact with kids her own age apart from at school and was clearly not enjoying it,the odd sarcastic comment saw to that.
Havent got a problem with people twitching but if you are that obsessed then choose to either wait till your kids have grown up or just dont have any in the first place

 

[Birdbrain]

Thats why i just say im a Birder..!
but the odd twitch is ok ;-)

 

[sparrowbirder]

Yes driving on Red-bull to coin a famous Lee Evans phrase "wake me up before I go-go"

 

[Lee Evans]

As many of the comments on this thread directly involve me, I have taken up Steve's offer and joined Birdforum so that I can personally address any comments and respond. Feel free to make your accusations and I will try my best to answer them.

I agree with Owen that I come over particularly negative in the programme and that is regrettable - but perhaps I am very miserable and frustrated at the current state of British twitching. I did 5 hours filming but in reality, all of the producers of the programme wanted to hear was my derogatory comments about others - they kept returning to the same old boring cliches. One must ask yourself why they featured Les Holiwell for five seconds - it is well known that he and Steve Webb attempted to construct a 9,000 word libellous website about me and it is well known that I dropped Les Holiwell like a stone after he upset Carmel in a very serious way. Before that he had been keen to join me on every little step of the way.

Secondly, the Azorean Gull conflict. I visited that site on at least ten occasions and fully knew the variability in the large numbers of gulls visiting the tip and pool to feed and drink. There were may lookalike Lesser Black-backed Gulls in the area and on a number of occasions, flocks of birders were watching and ticking the wrong bird. I wanted to make sure that Garry saw the right bird and hence my comments - the photographic proof that many showed me involved one of the lookalikes. On that particular day, the bird showed well in its usual roosting field and that is when Garry was able to enjoy good views of it. I believe in informing people that they are watching the wrong bird rather than just letting them tick off anything - this happens fairly frequently in birding.

And once again we have a mention of the Cley Pacific Swift. I presume this is a thinly-veiled attempt at trying to say that I did not see the bird - how many times has that one been peddled out? I joined a crowd of at least 25 birders that were watching the Pacific Swift from the track in front of the Richard Richardson Hide and after a couple of seconds after excellent directions (I think from memory from Andrew Moon), I intercepted the bird flying back and forth with Common Swifts over the North Scrape - very distant but reasonable views through the 'scope. I continued then a running commentary on the bird's whereabouts (from 1602 hours) and just over ten minutes later, at 1615 hours, Russell Ness and I (a Maidenhead birder) watched the Pacific Swift break from the flock and fly strongly inland, disappearing over the main coast road in the direction of Old Woman's Lane.

I had no personal problems with Mya-Rose and the Craig family - they are wonderful people and I admired their enthusiasm and dedication last year. Chris has always been a good friend of mine and I love all of the family members, including Ayesha, who I saw only this past weekend. In terms of the listings, I have always had a cut-off at 10 years old - but I agree that this is arbitrary and different people have different levels of learning skills and development at that young age.

As for cheating in birding, it is rife - but an equal problem is the amount of incompetence - and this is purely down to the lack of apprenticeships being served and the current attitude towards birdwatching.

Lee G R Evans

 

[dantheman]

With regards to the young girl,i stand by my comments.
Kids are a gift that US parents must cherish,not drag around the country at weekends because the parent has an addiction.Sure,she is out and about and is probably reasonably healthy but she probably has no contact with kids her own age apart from at school and was clearly not enjoying it,the odd sarcastic comment saw to that.
Havent got a problem with people twitching but if you are that obsessed then choose to either wait till your kids have grown up or just dont have any in the first place

What about UK parents? And there are far worse things going on out there ... what about the parents who take their kids out hunting with them, shopping, or even make them do sports at the weekends? I guess you could always leave the kid at home on its own or farm it off on relatives ... but that can have its problems ...

 

[MSA]

In support of Lee, his "policing" of the twitching community is simply a formal, semi-public version of what many/most of us do in our local patches. If a visitor approached you with a list of rarities they'd seen, would you accept the records at face value, or would you want to check for yourself before believing? In fact, there's probably a few locals you'd do that to! Every area has them....

 

[djprest]

The documentary followed Garry Bagnell, the Craig family and Brett Richards on their twitches and portrays how incredibly obsessive twitching can become - says I after twitching the American Bittern and Green Heron at the weekend!!!

7 year old Mya Rose Craig (LGRE's rival) didn't really look like she was that interested to me - may be wrong though. When asked by Lucy Leveugle, the programmes producer "What makes a good twitcher?" Mya replied "patience and good eyesight" - I would add to that question 'loads of dosh and time'!!!

Great to listen to Lee's thought's on everything!

Other celebs on there included Dick Filby and Will of RBA, Brett Richards, the Craig family, Jed Andrews, also noticed Rebecca Nason at the Eastern Crowned Warbler twitch.

NWT Cley was also shown, along with the Sandhill Crane Twitch and the Eastern Crowned Warbler twitch.

Entertaining and interesting, but it would have been good to have included some female twitchers and I know there's not many, but Sue Bryan was filmed for the documentary - don't know why she wasn't included.

but are the rest of female british twitchers as err how shall i put it...........as easy on the eye as Mrs Craig???

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

driving for 12 hours non stop while dosed up on red bull can hardly be good for other road users.
With regards to the young girl,i stand by my comments.
Kids are a gift that US parents must cherish,not drag around the country at weekends because the parent has an addiction.Sure,she is out and about and is probably reasonably healthy but she probably has no contact with kids her own age apart from at school and was clearly not enjoying it,the odd sarcastic comment saw to that.
Havent got a problem with people twitching but if you are that obsessed then choose to either wait till your kids have grown up or just dont have any in the first place

I agree with Tom's (sadly deleted) comment in response to this. Tom said something like 'this is cobblers', or words to that effect for any who missed it.

 

[Birdbrain]

As many of the comments on this thread directly involve me, I have taken up Steve's offer and joined Birdforum so that I can personally address any comments and respond. Feel free to make your accusations and I will try my best to answer them.

I agree with Owen that I come over particularly negative in the programme and that is regrettable - but perhaps I am very miserable and frustrated at the current state of British twitching. I did 5 hours filming but in reality, all of the producers of the programme wanted to hear was my derogatory comments about others - they kept returning to the same old boring cliches. One must ask yourself why they featured Les Holiwell for five seconds - it is well known that he and Steve Webb attempted to construct a 9,000 word libellous website about me and it is well known that I dropped Les Holiwell like a stone after he upset Carmel in a very serious way. Before that he had been keen to join me on every little step of the way.

Secondly, the Azorean Gull conflict. I visited that site on at least ten occasions and fully knew the variability in the large numbers of gulls visiting the tip and pool to feed and drink. There were may lookalike Lesser Black-backed Gulls in the area and on a number of occasions, flocks of birders were watching and ticking the wrong bird. I wanted to make sure that Garry saw the right bird and hence my comments - the photographic proof that many showed me involved one of the lookalikes. On that particular day, the bird showed well in its usual roosting field and that is when Garry was able to enjoy good views of it. I believe in informing people that they are watching the wrong bird rather than just letting them tick off anything - this happens fairly frequently in birding.

And once again we have a mention of the Cley Pacific Swift. I presume this is a thinly-veiled attempt at trying to say that I did not see the bird - how many times has that one been peddled out? I joined a crowd of at least 25 birders that were watching the Pacific Swift from the track in front of the Richard Richardson Hide and after a couple of seconds after excellent directions (I think from memory from Andrew Moon), I intercepted the bird flying back and forth with Common Swifts over the North Scrape - very distant but reasonable views through the 'scope. I continued then a running commentary on the bird's whereabouts (from 1602 hours) and just over ten minutes later, at 1615 hours, Russell Ness and I (a Maidenhead birder) watched the Pacific Swift break from the flock and fly strongly inland, disappearing over the main coast road in the direction of Old Woman's Lane.

I had no personal problems with Mya-Rose and the Craig family - they are wonderful people and I admired their enthusiasm and dedication last year. Chris has always been a good friend of mine and I love all of the family members, including Ayesha, who I saw only this past weekend. In terms of the listings, I have always had a cut-off at 10 years old - but I agree that this is arbitrary and different people have different levels of learning skills and development at that young age.

As for cheating in birding, it is rife - but an equal problem is the amount of incompetence - and this is purely down to the lack of apprenticeships being served and the current attitude towards birdwatching.

Lee G R Evans

I have meet you a few time buddy and your not that bad

Your just a nutter like all of us :t:

 

[JWN Andrewes]

Ok, everyone else is commenting, so here are my thougts (few though they be).

Firstly, even though it has been a few years since I've done any serious twitching (and I've never been a really serious twitcher, in any sustained sense at least), the one thing that utterly failed to come across is just how much fun it was. I used to love it! We tended to score more often than dip, do a bit of actual birding wherever we found ourselves, bump into old friends, make new ones, gossip, joke, discuss current scandals or ID breakthroughs, eat junk food and generally have a laugh. Where was any of that? Or have things really changed so much in the past ten years or so?

Also, I don't recall Lee being quite so relevant to what everyone thought, or did, or anything really. Sure he was oft quoted (someone saying "according to Lee..." could almost be overheard at every twitch), and a well known character, but did my ears deceive me or did I hear someone saying Lee could "destroy" people. Does he have a sufficient power base in UK twitching that this is the case? As I said, perhaps things have changed.

And finally (for now!) I missed whatever it was that Garry went to Ireland for, someone enlighten me, do please!

All the best

James

 

[djprest]

And finally (for now!) I missed whatever it was that Garry went to Ireland for, someone enlighten me, do please!

All the best

James

i think garry may have forgot as he was sat in the pub,a long way to go for a swift pint

 

[bitterntwisted]

I nearly posted this a year ago but feared it would warn potential participants off; Charlie Brooker on reality TV and editing, 02:38 onwards is the key bit... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBwepkVurCI

Documentaries like this aren't factual, they are story-telling devices. The producers will cherry-pick from a vast amount of footage to make the most interesting TV story to prompt the kind of discussion we are having. Anyone passing judgment on the Craig's parenting skills would do well to note this.

The programme-makers were pretty cruel to Lee, I thought. But they want participants who, given rope, will hang themselves, and Lee certainly fits the bill for that. Acknowledgement of his idiosyncratic but very positive contributions, (policing twitches, recording 434 Tufties, 78 Mute Swans etc. at Wilstone, being generally very courteous and helpful in the flesh) and his genuine interest in birds as more than just 'ticks', didn't suit the story they were telling.

Graham

 

[Mud Hen]

Lee - whilst your comments may well have been 'taken out of context', you still made them, and even the most superficial analysis shows that they are ridiculous in the extreme.

1. George Michael - whatever 'the public' may think about him, he is still a fantastically successful and phenomenally rich musician. You, on the other hand, er, have seen quite a few birds.

2. Gordon Brown - again, despite his spectacular fall from grace latterly, he was at least elected by his constituents as an MP, and again elected (sort of) as leader of the Labour Party and therefore Prime Minister. You, on the other hand, have never been elected by anyone and have simply set yourself up as 'judge' jury and executioner' and all that b******s.

If you don't make stupid comments to the camera in the first place, they can't be taken in any kind of context. That you are in your own words 'the most hated and despised person in British birding' in 100% your fault. Nobody asked you to do what you do; very, very few people (anyone?) want you to do what you do, and birding/twitching would be infinitely more pleasant for everyone if you weren't involved in it.

 

[bitterntwisted]

And finally (for now!) I missed whatever it was that Garry went to Ireland for, someone enlighten me, do please!

The programme didn't actually say, but I believe it was a Cedar Waxwing.

Graham

 

[The sniper]

What about UK parents? And there are far worse things going on out there ... what about the parents who take their kids out hunting with them, shopping, or even make them do sports at the weekends? I guess you could always leave the kid at home on its own or farm it off on relatives ... but that can have its problems ...

The US was simply us,highlighted because someone said earlier that the people who protested probably didn't have kids.

 

[Lee Evans]

To address Penny's comments. The programme makers first approached me with the idea of making a 'warts-and-all' hour-long show on British twitching. I was not keen and initially refused to be part of it, as I realised the consequences now being aired and of my contentious position in the hobby. Lucy kept trying to contact me and eventually I agreed to help out - and supplied them with a list of characters I felt would make for a fairly even-based and representative variety of twitchers. I was to keen to get the female element represented so I recommended Sue Bryan of King's Lynn - one of the most obsessed female birders of our time - and I believe much footage was taken of her. I also highly recommended the input of the Craig family and that of Garry Bagnell - because I felt that both would appeal more to the general public and make the programme more watchable. The producers were very keen to get Steve Webb on the film - because that was where they saw more mileage - and that would have allowed them to get an aspect of the real unhealthy nasty element of our hobby - but in the end it seems they settled for Les.

As it was, I agreed to become involved with the project and was filmed. By luck more than planning, they failed to capture on film a particularly nasty episode that happened at Oxford, when I had a major disagreement with Steve Whitehouse - a birder I had been friends with for over 30 years. The argument all got way out of hand and I regret that incident to this day - it was all very unnecessary. One could say that I am far too intense for this hobby and take it all far too seriously - and they may well be right - but believe me, I am only trying to make the hobby better for everyone by my weird and cavalier behaviour.

 

[clange]

Developing Country

... or rather underdeveloped :-(

Sometimes one feels rather disconnected from worldwide birding, twitching, or whatever you do and call it. And even BBC4 disconnects us from acces to the iPlayer version of this much discussed report: it's not accessible from outside UK, neither viewable nor downloadable. What a shame! Do you know, if there's a possibility to buy a DVD?

'From the trouble of the world, we turn to birds.' -- when they don't let me watch TV, I'll now go and watch birds! :smoke:

-Christoph

 

[Mike Cross]

and that bit at the end with the grey phal "oh ive seen that" you are having a laugh..

No he wasn't having a laugh, I think he has actually seen Grey Phalarope. I think it's Redwing that's the bogeybird for him.

I find this for Ireland see britain attitude offensive and arrogant "I'm off to Ireland, this is the 3rd for britain" etc

And does anyone know whether the police will prosecute based on footage of someone driving whilst on the phone. Of all the negative images portrayed nothing compares to that reckless and selfish act of stupidity.

 

[Farnboro John]

I was looking forward to this programme, hoping it would be better than the last expose (the one with Dipper in a rowing boat in Blakeney Harbour being overtaken by Dick Filby, probably the only person to sound sensible on this programme).

It wasn't. It was a representation of British twitching that I barely recognised. Lee's ego - yep, all present and correct, no surprise there. I knew little of Garry but was astounded to see how brown his nose had become from his worship of Lee. Bonkers mate, get a grip. Also get a hands-free set pronto, it might help when the cops produce the tape of the film in evidence.

The best ever twitching programme remains the radio "In search of a Megatick" dating from about 1983. David Hunt is on it: Bryan Bland is on it: numerous anonymous worthies add relevant, informative and witty contributions. THAT is British twitching, and its still out there, regardless of unbalanced tabloid reporting.

John

 

[Cortonbirds]

Twitching is an interesting, obsessive and maniacal pursuit. The programme served its purpose and showed this to the general public. Most knew about Lee Evans and the programme summed him up in an extreme sensationalist and often somewhat unfair way. This is no bad thing for him, we all knew it already, this just further adds to his "celebrity". He dedicates his life to birds and contributes massively to the scene. The scene needs such characters. I have always found him to be extremely helpful and he genuinely seems to enjoy seeing birds not just the rares.
I dont think Gary Bagnell came off that badly. The only negative really was him sitting in the pub in Ireland and not searching for the Waxwing...or indeed just enjoying birding at a presumably new site.
The show could have been far more positive..but that just wasnt its agenda. The clever editting of the Craig family, portraying an initially delightful family having fun to Mya becoming bored and disolusioned was imo merely editting and they dont deserve the abuse some are giving them on here.