Birding binoculars vs. hunting binoculars (1 Viewer)

[cycleguy]

Hi,

I've hunted elk in Colorado for about 20 years. Open sage valleys and scrub oak hillsides as well as pine forest. Distances less than, equal to, and beyond what you reference. I don't stand hunt or hunt from a vehicle. I'm out in the dark on foot and I'm moving and stopping all day until dark.

My recommendation is 8x or 7x and a spotting scope for the long distance close in work. I don't believe 10x gives any advantage and believe it to be more a disadvantage. However, from what I see in the sportsmen's outlets here in Colorado, 10x is king.

The Nikon 50mm fieldscope and a quality 8x or 7x will work very well. (The 50mm objective at higher magnification and last light doesn't work so well, but likely not an animal you would be able to get to during legal hunting hours anyways).

Holding 10x steady is difficult... and is more difficult with age, strenuous activity, cold weather and shivers, wind and gusty wind, and caffeine intake. It has been pointed out to me that some hunters spend the day sitting and can prop a binocular against a wood framed structure or vehicle which will keep it steady enough to benefit from. I'd have to reply if this is the case, why not more magnification.. like 15x????

I have not found a magical range of distance where 10x performs better than 8x or 7x. It seems that the three of them will do the job up to a point and then it takes noticeably more magnification to do the job. The 7x and 8x just do it easier, and better than 10x if you can't hold 10x steady.

I'd give more attention to optic quality and field of view and low light performance than magnification. Focus speed doesn't matter, just be familiar and comfortable with what you have.

I could go on but I'll stop unless you care to hear more.

Best of luck on the hunt,

CG

 

[WJC]

Hello Bill,

I'll hoot you up. as well.
I was out, today, in New York's Central Park, where I saw one of your favourite birds, as well as mine: cedar waxwings.
On Friday, an overcast day, I managed to induce some CA, at the edge, of a moderately priced 6.5x32. Does this mean that I have to give up using that binocular? Of course not, because I used the center of the field, while the edge, of an ample FOV, only has to be good enough to allow one to acquire another target.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

Hi Authur:

I haven't seen a waxwing here since the two-year episode I told you about. We were eating on the deck last evening when a female flicker landed on the railing. Living in the land of eagles, crows, sparrows, and robins, we don't get to see a lot of colorful birds. Thus, even a small sighting is a treat.

You speak of CA at the edge. Some folk want a bino that sharp at the edge; I do too. However, the fact is it doesn't matter UNLESS they are LOOKING at the edge! If a person looks intently at the word "crows" in the line above, they won't be able to make out "eagles" or "sparrows," unless they already KNOW what words to look for (preposition at the end and all).

They speak as though they can tell while in general axial viewing. They cannot! But some myths die hard. :cat:

Cheers,

Bill, your friendly neighborhood curmudgeon, Cook

 

[justabirdwatcher]

Hi,

I've hunted elk in Colorado for about 20 years. Open sage valleys and scrub oak hillsides as well as pine forest. Distances less than, equal to, and beyond what you reference. I don't stand hunt or hunt from a vehicle. I'm out in the dark on foot and I'm moving and stopping all day until dark.

My recommendation is 8x or 7x and a spotting scope for the long distance close in work. I don't believe 10x gives any advantage and believe it to be more a disadvantage. However, from what I see in the sportsmen's outlets here in Colorado, 10x is king.

The Nikon 50mm fieldscope and a quality 8x or 7x will work very well. (The 50mm objective at higher magnification and last light doesn't work so well, but likely not an animal you would be able to get to during legal hunting hours anyways).

Holding 10x steady is difficult... and is more difficult with age, strenuous activity, cold weather and shivers, wind and gusty wind, and caffeine intake. It has been pointed out to me that some hunters spend the day sitting and can prop a binocular against a wood framed structure or vehicle which will keep it steady enough to benefit from. I'd have to reply if this is the case, why not more magnification.. like 15x????

I have not found a magical range of distance where 10x performs better than 8x or 7x. It seems that the three of them will do the job up to a point and then it takes noticeably more magnification to do the job. The 7x and 8x just do it easier, and better than 10x if you can't hold 10x steady.

I'd give more attention to optic quality and field of view and low light performance than magnification. Focus speed doesn't matter, just be familiar and comfortable with what you have.

I could go on but I'll stop unless you care to hear more.

Best of luck on the hunt,

CG

Good advice there. I will be taking a 12-25x50 spotter with me. It's very compact. So perhaps your 8x logic does have some merit since I could always investigate further with the spotter. I had high hopes that my Brunton doubler would do that job for me, with very little size and weight, but I never could figure out how to attach it correctly, so I ended up returning it.

I'm 45, and in pretty good shape, so holding a 10x steady even after some hiking, isn't too much trouble for me still.

Hunting back East in the woods, I just see no reason for anything bigger or heavier than a 20 oz. 8x32. Being able to fit it in the outside pocket of my day pack is priceless when I'm in a tree stand or on foot.

 

[ceasar]

Good advice there. I will be taking a 12-25x50 spotter with me. It's very compact. So perhaps your 8x logic does have some merit since I could always investigate further with the spotter. I had high hopes that my Brunton doubler would do that job for me, with very little size and weight, but I never could figure out how to attach it correctly, so I ended up returning it.

I'm 45, and in pretty good shape, so holding a 10x steady even after some hiking, isn't too much trouble for me still.

Hunting back East in the woods, I just see no reason for anything bigger or heavier than a 20 oz. 8x32. Being able to fit it in the outside pocket of my day pack is priceless when I'm in a tree stand or on foot.

Take a Swarovski 2x doubler along with your 10 x 42 SLC instead of an 8x32 and a small spotter. It fits all SLCs (except the old 8x30) and EL models. It will fit in your pocket.

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/swarovski.pl?page=swarovskidoubler

Screw off one of your eyepieces and screw it on in its place. It is solid as a rock! Hold the binocular vertically like a telescope with both hands and you have a 20x42 monocular. I have one for my 7x42. If you have an 8x32 EL it will make it a 16x32.

Bob

 

[ads]

Looking at individual birds, I was very happy with a particular 7x binocular. It was very sharp in the center of the field, and the focus wheel was very precise and conducive to obtaining perfect focus almost instantly.

But when scanning a hillside, I found the optics to be non-optimal, despite the very large field-of-view. Why? Because it had a smallish sweet spot. As I panned around the hillside, I found the constant movement of the field in and out of focus to be distracting.

Also using the binoculars at the symphony, the smallish sweet spot was very apparent and distracting, whereas in a natural setting, concentrating on a single object such as a bird sitting on a branch, I really like the particular binoculars a lot.

 

[NDhunter]

Looking at individual birds, I was very happy with a particular 7x binocular. It was very sharp in the center of the field, and the focus wheel was very precise and conducive to obtaining perfect focus almost instantly.

But when scanning a hillside, I found the optics to be non-optimal, despite the very large field-of-view. Why? Because it had a smallish sweet spot. As I panned around the hillside, I found the constant movement of the field in and out of focus to be distracting.

Also using the binoculars at the symphony, the smallish sweet spot was very apparent and distracting, whereas in a natural setting, concentrating on a single object such as a bird sitting on a branch, I really like the particular binoculars a lot.

A good post, but you do need to tell us what binocular you are referring
too. That would help explain your experience better.

Jerry

 

[NDhunter]

I'm probably just simple minded, but I have always figured the way to do it was to buy the best binoculars you could afford, and use them, without niggling over things which are more in the mind than in the actual application.

Pick through a bunch of them, and choose the one you like best, based on the image, not stuff on a spec sheet. If the ergonomics are terrible, choose a different pair.

Analysis to the point of paralysis is alive and well, in the optics world.

I always get hooted down, when I say this.

I agree, always get the best binoculars that you can afford that work well
for you. Then you have all the bases covered.

As far as a binocular for hunting or birding it does not make any difference
at all.
Both require quality optics, and a user who knows how to use and find what they are looking for.
An experienced birder or hunter with good eyes and a decent binocular
will be able to see many things others will miss with a $2,000 Alpha.

That is often more important than the glass.

Jerry

 

[ads]

A good post, but you do need to tell us what binocular you are referring
too. That would help explain your experience better.

Jerry

It's the Atlas Optics Intrepid ED 7x36, the near-identical sibling of the Zen-Ray ED2 7x36. The sweet spot (in feet/meters) is smaller than any of my 8x binoculars. If you are looking for a wide FOV as I was, you are probably looking in the wrong place because the sweet spot is smaller than many 8x binoculars.

I still like the binocular a lot... under some viewing conditions, such as for viewing birds near the center of the field of view. The main advantage of the 7x36 seems to be that it provides a very relaxed view, is super easy to focus, and is relatively bright.

I also had a Celestron Granite ED 7x33 too for a few days, but the sweet spot of it was ridiculously small, and outer edge of the field of view was extremely blurry... like looking through the bottom of a coke bottle. That one went back very quickly.

 

[Pinewood]

Hello Ads,

I have the Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2, which was also disappointing, although I did not find sweet spot that restricting. I did find the edge far too fuzzy. This may show how much personal preferences play in choosing a binocular.

Depending on one's hunting or bird watching style and circumstances, there may a lot of differing choices in choosing a glass. I would suggest that centre focussing Porro binoculars are not well suited to active stalking and hunting.

Happy nature observing,
Arthur :hi:

 

[chill6x6]

I'd have to say there is exactly zero difference in hunting and birding binoculars. I've used a LOT and I mean a LOT of optics huntings. Really…if you CAN….it's always best to match the optics to your environment and conditions for use. Of course first consideration is the potential distances of object being viewed. Example…it makes ZERO sense using 10X binoculars while hunting whitetail with a bow as it does birding with 10X in a southern hardwood forest during the summer while I find 10X PERFECT for birding during the winter and early spring OR elk hunting in Montana. One difference...I really wouldn't be caught dead hunting with binoculars with an objective less than 42mm. Early morning and early evening light is that critical to hunting success….or failure.

Of course good optics are a must in each scenario. I'd so much rather have one quality pair of binoculars than any number of sub-par instruments. REALLY glassing with tell the true tale to your eyes with extended use of optics….birding OR hunting…

Best all time favorite hunting optic….EASILY the Leica Geovid 10X42. No test or review does it justice. Easily better optics than my Swarovski 10X42 SLCs…. Would pick up my 7X42 SLCs if headed to the woods though.

Favorite birding binocular…. It's REALLY hard for me to not carry two pair….but this time of year I'd probably pick the Vortex Viper HD 8X32s…..winter---->prob the HT 10x42s.

 

[brocknroller]

After finding out, much to my surprise, that there is exactly zero difference in hunting and birding binoculars, I have to wonder why optics companies go through the expense of marketing their bins to one group or the other?

For example, Zeiss put a lot of money into marketing the the HT to hunters. Do any hunters own HTs, I wonder? It also put $ into marketing the SF to birders.

Swaro marketed its new SLCs to hunters with its "back to basics" campaign. They went a little batty with the close focus on the SLC-HDs, and priced them too close to the ELs. Guess that didn't go over well with the hunting community because it wasn't long before they were back peddling and taking away that close focus and using it to justify lowering the price of the SLCs.

Then there's Steiner, which must be totally wasting their time marketing to hunters and even tweaking the AR coatings to bring out the browns. They also have different AR coatings for their marine bins. All marketing mumbo jumbo apparently. Oh, those Germans....

And there's Maven and other companies offering different kinds of camo armoring for hunters when the hunter's Gortex gloves probably cover most of the bin. A simple green or brown would do.

There's also a difference in terms of aperture preference between European hunters and American hunters. I'm told that Euro hunters prefer the 8x56 format whereas it is not popular in the U.S. where hunters prefer 10x bins, which is why Swaro doesn't sell its new 8x56 SLC in the U.S.

Given all this, I'm going to go with at least a +/-.01% difference between birding and hunting bins.

<B>

 

[ads]

After finding out, much to my surprise, that there is exactly zero difference in hunting and birding binoculars, I have to wonder why optics companies go through the expense of marketing their bins to one group or the other?

To sell more binoculars, of course. The goal is to make the prospective buyer to feel like the product is optimized for his/her hobby. Some bird watchers are turned off by hunters... and vice versa. Product literature featuring a hunter proudly towering over his kill holding a bloodied pair of TAC12 EXTREME PREDATOR binoculars might not be the optimal imagery for the bird watching market.

 

[jgraider]

I will be the first to agree on the minimal, if any, difference between birding and hunting glass. I will say though, that after having app 120 hunters in camp over the past 10-12 years, and having seen most all the high end glass except for recent Zeiss HT, UV HD+, or Niko EDG.....my newly acquired Swaro SV 10x42 is the sharpest, most complete hunting binocular I've ever seen. The view is utterly fantastic.

I have never seen a Leica show up in my camp, with the exception of a couple of Geovid's. Hunter's have little patience for crappy service and warranties.

 

[mooreorless]

JG I would have to admit I have never looked through a Leica. I think they sell these at Lost Creek Shoe Shop. I have to agree about the warranty thing.

 

[Torview]

JG, how many Leica scopes (sights) do you see being used ?

 

[jgraider]

I realize Leica has been in and out of the riflescope market, and their latest offerings are reported to be pretty good, but I have yet to see the first Leica rifle scope on a hunter's rifle. As with the Swarovski binocular example I posted, leuplold dominates the number of scopes I see hunters using. Probably 60-70% of our hunters show up with Leupold scopes, followed by Swarovski, Zeiss. I am starting to see a few Meopta R1 and R2's show up though.

 

[WJC]

After finding out, much to my surprise, that there is exactly zero difference in hunting and birding binoculars, I have to wonder why optics companies go through the expense of marketing their bins to one group or the other?

For example, Zeiss put a lot of money into marketing the the HT to hunters. Do any hunters own HTs, I wonder? It also put $ into marketing the SF to birders.

Swaro marketed its new SLCs to hunters with its "back to basics" campaign. They went a little batty with the close focus on the SLC-HDs, and priced them too close to the ELs. Guess that didn't go over well with the hunting community because it wasn't long before they were back peddling and taking away that close focus and using it to justify lowering the price of the SLCs.

Then there's Steiner, which must be totally wasting their time marketing to hunters and even tweaking the AR coatings to bring out the browns. They also have different AR coatings for their marine bins. All marketing mumbo jumbo apparently. Oh, those Germans....

And there's Maven and other companies offering different kinds of camo armoring for hunters when the hunter's Gortex gloves probably cover most of the bin. A simple green or brown would do.

There's also a difference in terms of aperture preference between European hunters and American hunters. I'm told that Euro hunters prefer the 8x56 format whereas it is not popular in the U.S. where hunters prefer 10x bins, which is why Swaro doesn't sell its new 8x56 SLC in the U.S.

Given all this, I'm going to go with at least a +/-.01% difference between birding and hunting bins.

<B>

Brock:

I think your .01% is over rated. But, with you being one of my heroes, I won't argue . . . this time!

All: Having been in the industry so long, I would like to point out that some companies will spend hundreds of thousands a year targeting a segment of the population. They instill in the minds of the unwary that THERE IS a difference, they have figured it out, and are offering it to the public.

That's why some boaters would rather use a beat up, poorly collimated, shedding, Chinese Steiner than a decent bino of another brand. The miracle? Branding, marketing, and the naivete of the consumer, and half of that marketing simply relies on the GERMAN name; they don't know Steiner does not do that well in GERMANY. Not only do Germans know how to create quality, since 1933 they have learned how to spot showmanship.:cat:

Bill

 

[brocknroller]

I realize Leica has been in and out of the riflescope market, and their latest offerings are reported to be pretty good, but I have yet to see the first Leica rifle scope on a hunter's rifle. As with the Swarovski binocular example I posted, leuplold dominates the number of scopes I see hunters using. Probably 60-70% of our hunters show up with Leupold scopes, followed by Swarovski, Zeiss. I am starting to see a few Meopta R1 and R2's show up though.

jg,

I suspect neither of these Leica hunters, let's call them Sebastian and Miles, ever ventured out West to your hunting camp.

Hoity–toity Leica-Hunters

I have no idea of how many hunters own Leica sports optics. They do get discussed on Optics Talk such as this thread, which you posted to, though not about Leicas.

opticstalk.com/leica-ultravid-hd-vrs-zeiss-victory-binos_topic

Here's another one, stephen b. liked the 8x32 Ultravid better than the Swaro CL, Steve C. (Klamath) liked the CL better. Jerry's on this thread, too, and even Dennis is mentioned! (you can "google" more results from Optics Talk and 24hrcampfire)

opticstalk.com/swaro-cl-8x30-or-leica-ultravid-8x32

I have no doubt that in the premium class, Swaros are the most popular among hunters who can afford them, but I suspect that in certain circles, call them gentlemen hunters, Leica does have its fans.

What made me think of this was a recent feature in Car & Driver. It showed the states where cars that C&D recommends sell the most. I don't have the issue in front of me or I would give you some examples, but suffice it to say, that the Mazda 3 and the BMW 3 series are not most popular in the same states.

My point being that your experience with hunters in your state or even those traveling to your state to hunt might be different than that of other guides in other states.

bp

 

[jgraider]

jg,

My point being that your experience with hunters in your state or even those traveling to your state to hunt might be different than that of other guides in other states.

bp

Can't argue with that Brock. I do know this though, I can go on my bi-annual excursion to Cabelas in Ft Worth, a mega store, and find lots of shelf space given to Swarovski, Vortex, Cabelas Instinct (Euro), a smattering of Bushnell and Nikon, and very few Leica products.

 

[WJC]

Brock wrote: "My point being that your experience with hunters in your state or even those traveling to your state to hunt might be different than that of other guides in other states."

No matter what the main topic at lectures I give at birding meetings, at 100% of those meetings, I am asked about which instrument I USE or I RECOMMEND.

WHO BLOODY CARES; I CAN'T USE IT FOR THEM!

Read a lot; pay attention to opinions; learn a little about optics; buy from a reputable dealer. If you are into bird watching--as opposed to keeping up with (or surpassing) the Jones's--those 4 points will get you where you need to be.

If, on the other hand, you have the need to own the latest, greatest, best, "perfect" binocular, you will NEVER be happy, because there will always be later, greater, better binoculars to keep you deflating your coffers. You have to decide which route is more important to YOU!

Cheers,

Bill